Lemmiwinks Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 So I guess you've all heard of the huge scandal this movie has just provoked Well, I haven't seen it (is it possible to see it anywhere right now?) but from the youtube clips it seems like a gross caricature, bad but not something you'd get upset about. After all, how many satiric movies have there been made on Jesus and noone thought of bombing embassies and such? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6lcJxmdqWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Well, I haven't seen it (is it possible to see it anywhere right now?) but from the youtube clips it seems like a gross caricature, bad but not something you'd get upset about. After all, how many satiric movies have there been made on Jesus and noone thought of bombing embassies and such? Well, The Last Temptation of Christ did result in a theatre being firebombed by a Christian "fundamentalist" group. But the Islamic world does seem to be a lot more touchy about criticism. To what extent that's a cultural difference rather than a religious one I couldn't say, not being at all knowledgeable about Islam. e: is a longer trailer, if anyone cares to watch it. I haven't. In case it doesn't go without saying, I think that going out of your way to offend the easily-offended like this director apparently intended is a bad thing. But a world where people weren't free say stupid and offensive shit would be an even worse thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulpa23 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) So, i think generalization is too obsolete nowadays and the better think we can do with it is something that in Italy is called "barzellette", kind of funny stories to tell someone when you have nothing better to say, or just for wasting time (actually in italy is a kind of Literary genre )... IMO the Muslim religion, as every religion, is not intended to convince people to destroy everyone is foreing to their cult, i think there's is someone or something wrong we did in the past that keeps people to destroy each other, this is convenient for example to distract from other questions, or sell weapons and other cool stuff .... we're in 2012 it's necessary that we start to consider humanity as unity, this is not in contrast with preserving cultures and languages and all the things that average people is afraid to loose when you talk about "solidarity", "fraternity" or "acceptance" for strangers Edited September 15, 2012 by Rotwang We have always been at war with Eurasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Any kind of people who put their religious view in front of rational thinking are troublesome, but that is sadly how the world are, and in this regard I see no difference between Muslims and Jews (or any other religion for that matter), if they are fanatic they are acting in exactly the same way, and they are a disgrace for everybody sharing their religion... Edited September 15, 2012 by Rotwang We have always been at war with Eurasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Any kind of people who put their religious view in front of rational thinking are troublesome, but that is sadly how the world are, and in this regard I see no difference between Muslims and Jews (or any other religion for that matter), if they are fanatic they are acting in exactly the same way Like how the Amish act in exactly the same way as Al-Qaeda, for example? Edited September 15, 2012 by Rotwang We have always been at war with Eurasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needle ninja Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Well I think that Islam and freedom of speech just don't mix. You can not have people who will be violent and unwilling to accept criticism in the same place as people who want to practice true freedom of speech. It's really is true of all religions. Harboring radicals and what Sartre called 'dictators' has been going on for thousands of years within the confines of religious groups. The unwillingness of people to maintain flexibility and reason is no justification to curb the freedom of exp<b></b>ression. Furthermore, pandering to one religion or another will not help, ever. I sure would not accept a public post to a country where a radical religious sect had any hold of the population. Edited September 15, 2012 by Rotwang We have always been at war with Eurasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Like how the Amish act in exactly the same way as Al-Qaeda, for example? it's hardly a valid comparison... lol.. but I am pretty sure you can find Christian terror groups (http://en.wikipedia....stian_terrorism) It's all mixed together with social status, local customs, culture and so on (I am no expert either) but the common thing is to put some "divine" purpose to your actions that has no go in a rational world, and that is the main problem as I see it, that some people can act on a religious view only and totally close their eyes for all other in-puts. It's seriously fucked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) it's hardly a valid comparison... lol.. but I am pretty sure you can find Christian terror groups (http://en.wikipedia....stian_terrorism) Yes, what of it? This in no way supports what you seemed to be saying in the material I quoted, namely that all religious fanatics act the same way. Edited September 15, 2012 by Rotwang We have always been at war with Eurasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Well it probably depend on what you look at, I am pretty sure you can find "Amish-type" religious groups in every major religion, like you can find terrorists who use religious arguments for their activities... so sorry I didn't elaborate on my point, but hopefully you get my point now?! And that said by no doubt Islam or a large portion of its followers have a major problem with their religious sensitivity in general, well at least if they have to integrate into a Western society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Well it probably depend on what you look at, I am pretty sure you can find "Amish-type" religious groups in every major religion, like you can find terrorists who use religious arguments for their activities... so sorry I didn't elaborate on my point, but hopefully you get my point now?! Yep, sorry if I misunderstood you before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracohr Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This damned situation pisses me off. Start with one asshole intentionally trying to insult people, add another bunch of assholes who take it too seriously, bring to a simmer, serve with rice. I especially hate that the U.S. embassy gets attacked, as though the U.S. government has anything to do with this one asshole. Should I go attack the Saudi embassy because their restrictions on women offend me? Some people I swear are actively trying to create a religious war with Islam, because they know how touchy they get about Mohammad. "Why can't we all just get along?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 A characteristically sensible post on the subject from a blog I follow: link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trance2MoveU Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Turns out that they believe the attack was premeditated in Libya. Regardless it makes no sense and it does seem like individuals are trying to poke the west with a stick so we will wage war on Islam. The real stupidity? You end up with waaaay more dead muslims than westerners. How does that accomplish your goal? I'm sure there are things my government does that is sketchy, but you know what radical Islamists? Get a set of balls and don't be so sensitive when someone pokes fun at your religion. We have an expletive in English that actually takes the Lord's name in vain! Get over yourselves. I will tell you one thing that perturbs me: If Islam is a peaceful religion, and the majority of Muslims who practice this religion are peaceful, where is their outrage? Because we in the US don't see countries in the Middle East standing up and denouncing this behavior it makes all the followers appear to be either in on it, or timid sheep that won't stand up to the minority. If it is a minority. Mdk Edited September 15, 2012 by Rotwang We have always been at war with Eurasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The real stupidity? You end up with waaaay more dead muslims than westerners. How does that accomplish your goal? If your goal is to achieve martyrdom in the hope of getting 72 virgins, it accomplishes it just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 e: is a longer trailer, if anyone cares to watch it. I haven't. In case it doesn't go without saying, I think that going out of your way to offend the easily-offended like this director apparently intended is a bad thing. But a world where people weren't free say stupid and offensive shit would be an even worse thing. ^ this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) The Islam has to expect that nowdays there always will be criticism, humor, laughter, irony about religion. All religion, not only theirs. When Life of Brian by Monthy Phython was released in 1979 lot's of Christians protested, but at the end freedom of speech won. This case seems the same imo. Maybe it's a stage they still have to overcome.... The movie suck big time, and does provoke, but that should be ok. Should we ban all black metal satanic music? no, freaks are necessary to the world Edited September 15, 2012 by Rotwang We have always been at war with Eurasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 AHA!! It turns out that the "jewish" producer wasn't jewish at all!! He is actually an Egyptian Christian. Actually if you look at the long trailer it becomes quite obvious since they insist on christian Egyptians being persecuted by Mohammed. I guess that makes matters even worse for us westerners since we can't just say "ah, it was some jewish troublemaker's fault". Still, like other people said in this thread, our modern society is full of examples of people who took the name of the Lord in vain (Madonna for starters!), they didn't get assasinated, quite on the contrary they went on and made a lot of money and achieved fame. Of course there were a group of christian radicals who opposed their actions but they were clearly a very small minority. With Islam, it seems that ALL the islamic countries rise whenever someone even comes close to making a caricature of Mohamed. There's clearly something wrong here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penzoline Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 http://www.psynews.o...ction=rules&f=2 This type of discussion will just end up in a shitstorm. Let's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I've unlocked the thread, but also tried to edit out all traces of racism. I hope we can continue to discuss the topic in a civilised manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 hmm I rekon it was pretty civilized... flame wars sure aren't what they used to be around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Sure it was polite enough, but it did violate the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 hmm I rekon it was pretty civilized... flame wars sure aren't what they used to be around here that's true but racism polite or un polite is still racism. Stealing a car and leaving a note, 'sorry' is still stealing a a car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Guys defend freedom of speech, while erasing written words... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Guys defend freedom of speech, while erasing written words... If there are forum rules in theory there is no freedom of speech, From my perspective there is no freedom of speech in society either, you can't deny the holocaust in public, with total freedom of speech that would not be a problem. Not that I want the law to change it, don't get me wrong, But it's often an illusion we are endeavor for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Guys defend freedom of speech, while erasing written words... Freedom of speech means you have the right to say what you want. It doesn't mean that anybody is obliged to provide a platform for you to do so. Be a racist all you like, but do it somewhere other than Psynews (e.g. here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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