LIVE vs LIVE

[Procyon]

Most of you read me and Neurogen trying to define if Astral Projection plays live or not.

 

According to Neurogen, LIVE is when an artist mixes and twitches pre-recorded, or not, sequences during his set. Example: 9 out 10 psy artists (and all DJs I know), give or take.

 

According to me, LIVE is when the artist plays acostically as much as possible, making use of drums, guitars, bass and whatnot, all of them not pre-recorded. Example: Juno Reactor, Sun Project, System 7. DJs do not do that.

 

IMO, LIVE used in psychedelic/goa parties means only that the artist will be at the party IN PERSON, not that he will play any instrument on stage. So, according to me, Astral Projection does play LIVE, just like almost every other psy artist.

 

In Neurogen's opinion, it was a fake live, for AP was only pressing buttons, and there was no new sounds thrown in the middle of their sets.

 

What do you say?

[Guest neurogen]

<33

 

 

but i think you missed one choice..

 

live is when the artist does on the fly sequencing and muting/unmuting, tweaking etc

 

to clarify my opinion..

 

 

 

Everything that is done "live" at that session, on that occasion, (sequencing, mixing, bpm changes, tweaking, muting/unmuting - etc) is LIVE.

 

If you just push a button- it is NOT live. (I.E you allready prepared the whole "live"-set at home)

 

I dont think I can be more clear than that.

[prog4all]

I agree that live in this scene generally means that the artist will be at the party in person.

 

If this should be the right definition of 'live' is a different story. But the fact remains that the word 'live' is used in this way at parties. Personally I have no problem with this way of using the word. When I see the word 'live' at a party announcement, I know that I will be expecting a set with some or a lot of the artists work and possibly other stuff of the same style. When I enjoy work of a artist in particular, I have no problem with a set like this. If the music is good, it's good enough for me.

[Procyon]

<33

 

 

but i think you missed one choice..

 

live is when the artist does on the fly sequencing and muting/unmuting, tweaking etc

 

to clarify my opinion..

 

 

 

Everything that is done "live" at that session, on that occasion, (sequencing, mixing, bpm changes, tweaking, muting/unmuting - etc) is LIVE.

 

If you just push a button- it is NOT live. (I.E you allready prepared the whole "live"-set at home)

 

I dont think I can be more clear than that.

 

Problem, Neurogen, is that

sequencing, mixing, bpm changes, tweaking, muting/unmuting - etc

in nothing more than to push a button.

 

Mixing is about pushing a button, from one side of the deck to the other.

BPM changing and matching is about pushing a button.

Tweaking is about twisting a button.

Muting/unmuting is about pushing a button.

 

If you just push a button- it is NOT live. (I.E you allready prepared the whole "live"-set at home)

Now, this is serious. An artist that only matches the bpm of recorded tracks and makes a transition using effects/songs is acceptable and the rule.

An artist that comes to stage with a 90-minutes recorded set is a real FAKE. Do you mean that AP comes to stage with a 90-minute pre-recorded set?

 

If the last option is true, I myself will contact them and ask for explanations. This is unacceptable in DJ world and it's a rule that not even two tracks can be "merged" at home before the set, let alone in an artist set, who gets paid a good sum of money.

 

Which is it?

[Procyon]

ive is when the artist does on the fly

I think the first option covers it.

[Guest neurogen]

Problem, Neurogen, is that

 

in nothing more than to push a button.

 

Mixing is about pushing a button, from one side of the deck to the other.

BPM changing and matching is about pushing a button.

Tweaking is about twisting a button.

Muting/unmuting is about pushing a button.

 

 

Now, this is serious. An artist that only matches the bpm of recorded tracks and makes a transition using effects/songs is acceptable and the rule.

An artist that comes to stage with a 90-minutes recorded set is a real FAKE. Do you mean that AP comes to stage with a 90-minute pre-recorded set?

 

If the last option is true, I myself will contact them and ask for explanations. This is unacceptable in DJ world and it's a rule that not even two tracks can be "merged" at home before the set, let alone in an artist set, who gets paid a good sum of money.

 

Which is it?

 

 

ok its pushing a button. But it is pushing multiple buttons multiple times. Comon man.

Id say there is a big difference than pushing ONE button (PLAY) or pushing multiple buttons (muting/unmuting - on the fly sequencing - tweaking sounds LIVE (cutoff, resonance etc)) than just pushing ONE button and just play their track from whatever source.

 

AP did just that. ALL their tracks were release versions. I.E they just press play on their dat/cd/whatever.

 

Then they poorly Dj-mixed them together.

 

 

A real live act doesnt do that. Like SImon Posford. You cannot HEAR the mix between the tracks. Cus its not a mix between the tracks. it is LIVE SEQUENCING.

I.E he puts one track into the previous directly in the sequencer.

So you wont notice and BPM change, any groove change, or anything like that. He just mutes/unmutes etc directly into the next track.

The opposite of what a DJ does. He Mixes the tracks together. A live act SEQUENCES the tracks together.

 

AP did not do that at all. They acted like a DJ.

 

 

I feel you know exactly what I mean but you still want to argue...

[Procyon]

Hmmm, let's our intelligent fellows decide on this for us.

[Guest D N H]

LIVE in psy is different from LIVE as in rock concerts. - Indeed *(With the exception of groups like Shpongle, SUN Project etc, which is a combination of both types)

LIVE is just the artist IN PERSON at the party. - No. That would be only PR (Public Relations).

 

If the artist just makes a plain DJ Mixing of his tracks, i don't know if it could be considered as a live performance.

But if the artist makes a unique or in a personal way DJ Mixing of his tracks, then i think it should be considered as a LIVE.

Furthermore, live sequencing, synthesizing, live remixing or whatever needs technical skill or artistic act, is what makes of a LIVE performance.

 

[CoLoUr DoTZ]

"Playing Live" is interacting with the music. The more interaction, more live. If the question is "where finnish the Dj set and start the Live", nowadays is a very dificult answer as with all the new tools to dj the line between them is really broad.

 

Here the only real electronic live act

 

 

And here something that gets close to it

 

http://youtu.be/Bjhpu-B08jc

[Ormion]

It can't be any 'real' live in a music genre like psy. So even if the artist pushes the play button or add some effects by twisting some knobs doesn't make much difference IMO.

I'm ok with that though. I really can't see how someone can play goa/psy live. Do what? Play those melodies live on keyboards? And even he manages to do that what's the difference? We're talking about edm here not classical music. Most melodies are rather simple, so what's the point? And what about genres like darkpsy? What to expect for the artist to do? Create all those effects that moment? No prerecording?

About using live organs I don't have a problem as long the original song has one. I don't wanna listen to guitar riffs on top of my favourite track just because it's the only live thing the artist can play.

 

 

In conclusion: Personally I have a huge respect for artists that play as live as possible, but IMO doesn't really matter.

[Guest D N H]

"Playing Live" is interacting with the music. The more interaction, more live. If the question is "where finnish the Dj set and start the Live", nowadays is a very dificult answer as with all the new tools to dj the line between them is really broad.

 

Defining perfection of few words

 

I prefer AP press a button than a DJ press a button :-)

 

Yes, there's some good truth here. But only if the artist (AP) is true (feels it truly).

[Richpa]

Let me clear some things right here:

 

'live'

 

 

and offcourse LIVE

 

 

My 2 cents.

[Panoptes]

I already expressed my opinion on this mater. Goa can't be played live thus you can't apply the same ramifications used for bands. As far as I'm concerned a live goa performance is live as long as the composer himself is there tweaking his sequenced project, perhaps even playing a part on a keyboard. Hitting play and letting iTunes or w.e. do its thing isn't live. Also you need to make a distinction between dj and the composer himself. Djs don't have a sequenced project, they have a wave

file which imposes limitations on their ability to create a truly unique version of a track for the audience.

 

One last thing. The poll was made terribly. Too many options plus they are all unclear.

[Guest D N H]

 

 

[Guest D N H]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_zemrU4Rm0

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVAka_y3BC0

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmgsvlfQg6M

[Guest D N H]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr5QoDnzMws

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlYzvniox6U

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRYmSmfllJg

[Guest D N H]

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSBI0s89E-Y

[CoLoUr DoTZ]

This is Live

 

http://www.ektoplazm.com/mixes/kino-oko-moscow-2011

 

http://www.ektoplazm.com/mixes/kino-oko-live-in-saint-petersburg

[technosomy]

[w_lizzard]

I believe LIVE in psy is different from LIVE as in rock concerts. But LIVE is NOT just the artist IN PERSON at the party, sure he has to tweak some knobs to make the track special on that night.

 

Btw, this is magnificent!

[Guest neurogen]

I already expressed my opinion on this mater. Goa can't be played live thus you can't apply the same ramifications used for bands. As far as I'm concerned a live goa performance is live as long as the composer himself is there tweaking his sequenced project, perhaps even playing a part on a keyboard. Hitting play and letting iTunes or w.e. do its thing isn't live. Also you need to make a distinction between dj and the composer himself. Djs don't have a sequenced project, they have a wave

file which imposes limitations on their ability to create a truly unique version of a track for the audience.

 

One last thing. The poll was made terribly. Too many options plus they are all unclear.

 

Exactly. Live in this genre is different from bands with real instruments.

Also a dj is different from a live act.

 

And its not fair to say ap who pushes a button is equal to simon or talamasca who works their arses off creating something unique.

[LuisBSF]

It really is difficult to play live stuff when it's trance we're talking about. For starters, it's often just the one person. The music is really quick, this makes playing some of the sequences impossible unless you're a really good keyboardist. Everything needs to be in perfect sync, or you risk throwing people off whatever it is they're dancing to.

 

My approach is to render the choice of tunes to 4 stems, each grouping different instruments (I have different FX set on each stem I can invoke at any time via the midi controllers), and leaving some out - usually pads and acid lines. Tunes then are arranged into the set (you can get some really slick transitions this way). This allows me to play many of the pads, or the slower melodic lines, tweaking 303's and fucking with several FX channels controlled by MIDI.

 

Now that I'm playing out a lot more often, I'm re-evaluating this set up to see what else I can do to make it as live as I possibly can.

[Procyon]

It seems that everybody agrees that DJs are not live acts. I myself never thought I was doing live.

[Padmapani]

in theory, live to me means that the artist plays and manipules his own music on the fly.

in practice live in psy music means that the artist plays his own music prerecorded and does some silly acting on the stage.

 

i don't care about seeing the artist acting on the stage, in fact i don't even care if i see the artist at all. doing something with the music while it's playing is definitely a plus, but as the general populace at the parties have no way to discern if someone is just playing a prerecorded set or if he's manipulating/rearranging his tracks (or playing a part with the keyboard), there's imho not really a point to making a big distinction here.

so in practice, live to me means that an artist plays his own music. period. as long as the music is good i couldn't care less if he simply popped in a cd and went for a smoke.

 

i guess some of that is due to my history with freetekno, where the djs are deliberately hidden behind the speakers to prevent any sort of dj/artist-star-cult and shift the attention to the music and the people. this is imho a good thing (and there has up to now prevented those silly "put your hands up in the air" moments in the music which can break the trance dance experience).

 

 

by my definition a dj cannot be live, because he plays other people's music. even if a dj set is actually more live than most livesets.

[Colin OOOD]

If you use the word 'live' to describe what you do, you're telling people that at least part of the music they're listening to is being created live on stage. If that's not happening, you're not playing live, and (whether they care or not) the audience is being misled. Bottom line.

 

If you're a live act, you'll be getting paid more for your appearance than you would if you were just DJing those same tracks. This is because you're supposed to be doing something special - something hard, something that most people can't do, something more involved than just pressing play, or using the buttons and faders on your JP8000 to control Traktor, without using the keyboard to play anything (as I saw one big name do for his headline set at a party here in Bristol a while ago). It's not about you. No matter who you are, no matter what incredible music you make, you - as a person - are as worthy of being paid to get up on stage just to dance as is that 18-yo candy raver with the pacifier who storms the stage during your set. And it's not even about the music you make; we can assume you wouldn't be there at all if your tracks weren't able to get a dancefloor moving. If you're telling people you're playing live, it's about what you're adding of your own real-time creativity to the music coming out of the speakers.

 

I don't care what live acts do on stage, as long as they're busy doing stuff I can hear. And I mean - BUSY.