Limited Edition CDs

[StraydoG]

I notice alot of CDs coming out now from the GOA genre are limited edition, can I ask why?

 

There are things like Mind Rewind that I doubt I will get my hands on because its so expensive. I dont know if its because so many people brought it upon release of people brought multiple copies to make money from it aswell as have a copy themselves?

 

When labels release a CD, say Suntrip for example (cos I know your on the forums), do you forecast or have a rough idea how many will sell so you will make so many or does it come down to its more economical to run say 1000 copies? Or is it a selling tactic even?

 

Just a thought that I had in my head the other day and was quite interested to find out.

[Guest D N H]

This subject has been discussed a little while ago...

 

The rising excess of Extra Limited Releases ..have a look.

[Richpa]

Richpa: OK, tell me more about Suntrip’s experiment with limited editions (InnerSpace, TransStellar). Are you planning to do more limited edition releases for collectors in the future?

 

Joske: Well, we started with the limited editions, which are only available from our own webshop or discogs, because we realised not every release is for the same audience. The limited editions are for the real goa-freaks who want to have all, including the less accessible albums of lesser known artists (such as InnerSpace), or re-releases of old tracks (such as Dimension 5’s TransStellar)! More releases will follow in the future for sure!

 

[Guest D N H]

Well, this policy has an advantage and a disadvantage.

The disadvantage is that releases are not available in mailorders and physical shops but only on the labels site.

The advantage is that releases will stay much more time available for purchase worldwide and especially for those who really want to obtain one and will seek it.

[Agneton]

The underneath statement doesn't have to be true . For Sita Records I decided to press in limited numbers from the start (500 CD's and 300 CD's), and they are distributed in all the shops! I guess it depends on the pressing company and distributor you use...

 

Well, this policy has an advantage and a disadvantage.

The disadvantage is that releases are not available in mailorders and physical shops but only on the labels site.

The advantage is that releases will stay much more time available for purchase worldwide and especially for those who really want to obtain one and will seek it.

[Guest D N H]

No, i was referring to Suntrip's limited edition policy. As far as i know, it's not possible to find these in other shops and mailorders.

 

I didn't know about Sita records limited pressings and its policies.

 

[Penzoline]

Mind Rewind and such are very special cases where demand exceeds supply. Otherwise you take a random goa flavour cd and they will have over-stockage even with 1000 prints.

 

Take a look at portamento or erta ale. Those CD's are top notch yet prolly are far from being sold out.

[BraneFreeze]

Mind Rewind and such are very special cases where demand exceeds supply. Otherwise you take a random goa flavour cd and they will have over-stockage even with 1000 prints.

 

Take a look at portamento or erta ale. Those CD's are top notch yet prolly are far from being sold out.

 

Which brings me to an old issue: are labels in the music business or the plastics business? I don't understand the continuing fixation with CDs (which almost always incur a loss) to the exclusion of any digital distribution alternative. The number of CD buyers (for all kinds of music) decreases every year. It's time to accept the new reality and new buyer preferences.

[Guest D N H]

It makes it special and sought after, collectors kind of need to buy it. I bought my Mind Rewind for 80! €, I'd rather not see it being re-issued now.

That's really a shame!

It is not going to be repressed as far as i know, but if it was, the label should had sent you a copy for a present.

 

[Dolmot]

Which brings me to an old issue: are labels in the music business or the plastics business? I don't understand the continuing fixation with CDs (which almost always incur a loss) to the exclusion of any digital distribution alternative. The number of CD buyers (for all kinds of music) decreases every year. It's time to accept the new reality and new buyer preferences.

 

From that other topic...

 

Regarding pressing: I sold only 300 copies of Crossing Mind and I wish I did press 300 of that album, that was liked basically only in Belgium; I lost a lot of money with it and that is a fact. Digital sales provided me only 50 eur after 2 years of release, so what shall i do?

 

Are digital sales replacing CD sales or is the new buyer preference "not buying it at all"? I wouldn't even bother setting up digital distribution if it yielded a grand total of 50e.

[mars]

Which brings me to an old issue: are labels in the music business or the plastics business? I don't understand the continuing fixation with CDs (which almost always incur a loss) to the exclusion of any digital distribution alternative. The number of CD buyers (for all kinds of music) decreases every year. It's time to accept the new reality and new buyer preferences.

There's still buying cds, who are typically 30+ and who like to hold a quality product in their hands. CD sales decreases, true, but remain decent if you release good music wrapped in a nice artwork.

IMO there's no denying digital media's are overcoming all the rest.

 

Please read my interview on psytrance.pl (and Anoebis' interview on Neogoa) for infos on why/how Suntrip makes limited editions, and what I think about this shift in the way people consume music and the piracy surrounding it.

[Rotwang]

Take a look at portamento or erta ale. Those CD's are top notch yet prolly are far from being sold out.

Indeed, I found one of them in HMV earlier this year.

[masen023]

Read the story of: Mind Rewind here.

 

http://www.psynews.org/forums/index.php?/topic/64744-the-rising-excess-of-extra-limited-releases/

[BraneFreeze]

I think it's a little early to write off digital sales as too small to make the effort.

 

First of all, I've noticed that more labels and producers are adding Bandcamp, but so far the albums mostly come from their back catalog, music that's been available for some time through other channels and formats. It stands to reason that there would be lower demand (in an already small market) for older music. I'm glad the old stuff is more easily available (and sometimes remastered), but let's take a little more time to see how new albums sell in this approach.

 

Second, I've noticed that many digital albums are simply over-priced on Bandcamp (and elsewhere). Personally, I consider 10 euros a gouge for a standard length digital album (320 MP3), and I'm much more willing to go the file sharing route (even for a lower quality file). Given that there are no costs for physical production (ie, CDs) or shipping, I consider a "fair price" to be more in the range of 7 euros per album (and Bandcamp data suggests approx 5.5 euros (7 dollars) as the optimal album price). So, once again, let's take a little more time to see how alternative pricing might work.

 

Third, it seems that labels and producers have more flexibility with Bandcamp, than with Beatport or other distributors. Have all the options and permutations really been explored?

 

My sense is that many goa / psy labels have an ambivalent and halfhearted approach to digital distribution, which ultimately affects sales revenues. I know there's probably a reluctance to experiment when you only have a few releases per year, but it seems to me that the cost of staying the same (ie, heavy emphasis on CDs) is much higher than the cost of trying something else.

 

If your current sales suck, what have you got to lose?

 

 

[Ormion]

IMO physical or digital doesn't matter as long there is not much support by the listeners. I'm betting that they psyheads that buy releases (physical or digital) is less than 5%. The hippie attitude doesn't help either.

[StraydoG]

Thanks for the response guys. I will read the links at some point (busy day at work).

 

I have just hit 30 this year and digital releases just dont appeal to me. I love to have a physical copy, I guess everyone has something they collect and mine would be music.

[Penzoline]

Of course since it's such an obscure genre there's not many consumers nor rich people.

 

It's a numbers game no matter how you crunch it.

 

Now for the digital argument. When the day comes when all is digital, I don't know what I'll do, but a thing is for sure and that is I'll be spending much less.

[StraydoG]

Actually, I managed to sneak in a read of the links and one more question it raises.

 

Places like Suntrip shop, are your margins better if I buy from your site, should I cut out Psyhop when I know that you are releasing something to help? But then again, if enough people did that would it destroy Psyshop like SaikoSounds?

[Penzoline]

Pretty sure non-goa related market is still wholly up to the 3rd party sellers. Cutting goa from their profits shouldn't be much.

[Master Lu Bu]

Was pretty excited to get the limited edition of trans stellar from suntrip only to find it on iTunes. I felt a bit betrayed because when I held the disc it was a magical feeling.

[technosomy]

Actually, I managed to sneak in a read of the links and one more question it raises.

 

Places like Suntrip shop, are your margins better if I buy from your site, should I cut out Psyhop when I know that you are releasing something to help? But then again, if enough people did that would it destroy Psyshop like SaikoSounds?

 

i don't think psyshop are likely to go down anytime soon, the fact i can get a cd incl postage for 12 dollars australian, delivered to my door in 5 days or less, is amazing, and a sign of a well oiled business.

 

as far as suntrip goes, order from them regardless, margins aside, they fantastic to deal with

[franki]

Thanks for the response guys. I will read the links at some point (busy day at work).

 

I have just hit 30 this year and digital releases just dont appeal to me. I love to have a physical copy, I guess everyone has something they collect and mine would be music.

 

Same here. (except I'm a bit older than 30! )

I love collecting CDs - and I can't bring myself to pay for a downloaded file. I reckon if the CD dies out totally, I'll stop buying music and just download free stuff.

I know that's not good for the artists, but I don't see a download as something of any worth. No different to a pirated copy in my eyes - call me old fashioned...

I enjoy getting new albums in the post and checking out the sleeves almost as much as listening to them. There's no excitement to downloading.

[Tatsu]

Yeah franki, I tend to see it a bit similar and I'm also old fashioned. But lately I discovered beatport and I have to say downloadable tracks have their advantages. You don't have to buy a whole album just to ge get the one decent track, you can put all the music you need on two ubs-sticks and just carry them arround in your pocket (especially nice for DJing), plus there are shitloads of tracks to buy that don't get released on CD or vinyl (ok, depending on the styles you are in). I still prefere CDs over downloads but on the other hand I rather play interesting music from my sticks than boring music from CDs so...

[draeke]

I want to continue on this subject by adding that once more I am pressing CDs, and that I am starting with singles because I know that probably there will be 500 people, all over the world, that would want to held a copy of the Crop Circles singles. At least I suspect that some 300 Goa collectors from Belgium would, and that is a reason good enough for me to continue pressing, even if probably in lower numbers from now on, as I want to have a CD for myself and for the people that still like/collect this format.

 

Digital distribution is a marasm: there are old band selling on their own self-made bandcamp and selling old music ranging from 5 to 15 eur per album and 1 to 3 eur per track, depending on who the artist is and many other factors. This is good and bad, good cause they offer long sold out music, maybe that was also only on vinyl and remastered, but also bad as you have to know about the bands and find their online store...

Then there are some aggregation sites like the one I use, called Record Union, that send the music to the typical online stores that are iTunes, Amazon, Juno and a few more but so far couldn't deliver my stuff to BeatPort. That, even if it is the most expensive shop out there, is probably the one that has the most audience and where I could hope to sell a bit more.

 

In any case the final buyer should know that the best way to support a label is to buy directly from their online shop, if they have one, and that is why i set up one on my label website. I know that shipping costs are high for CDs but postal rates in Europe are ridiculously high everywhere and in my case I really did put the costs from the post office plus the bubble box cost of 0.5 and I even halved the paypal surcharge to make it easier for final buyers. I honestly don't know how psyshop can offer the postal rates they offer and that is a big bummer for the final sales as everyone will compare different sites before finalizing a purchase.

 

The final buyer maybe thinks that is the same if he buys a cd from big distribution (amazon/beatspace/psyshop/etc) but the reality is that for us those shops are just a way to spread the music to a wider audience and for a CD sold on one of those big store the label ultimately sees only 3 to 4,5 eur, never anything more. That's why to survive we have to sell out the few copies we keep "at home" and sell on our online stores. If I were to sell all my CDs through big distribution only, DAT Records would have been extinct by now.

 

Now there are some new labels in Israel that are trying the self-distribution system and that maybe could work if they have a wide audience, they may find 500 direct customers and sell all their CD x 7 to 10 eur and that would probably help them releasing more. And I wish them the best success with that!

 

As for the digital distribution, it is the same, if a release is bought from a big distributor the label would receive a lot less and in my case, only 6 months after the actual purchase. For that reason I try to see if there are people interested in my digital releases but my online shop is probably not so appealing yet and/or consumer of old-school goa only want the CD, I don't know, fact is I sell digital downloads of my releases only on Amazon and iTunes mostly and the best seller has been Blue Planet in digital, the worst Crossing Mind and we will see how Etnica does, Crop Circles on digital was nothing special either but maybe now that the CD has been sold out it will sell a bit more in FLAC/MP3. Same thing with the Digital Distribution, we get much less when you buy it on Amazon etc and the bonus I give to my direct customer is that you will get the FLAC+MP3+Artwork in High Def. in the same purchase as a pack.

 

That's all

[BraneFreeze]

I'm 30+ too, but now only buy CDs as a last resort. I already have hundreds of CDs from the pre-digital era, but these days the convenience, flexibility, and lower price of digital music is much more compelling than the tangible pleasures of CD ownership.