Orientalism in Trance - What's all about it?

May 17, 2013

Back in the old days, psychedelic trance was in good shape. We had trust on it over its developing variations based on artists sound developments. However, with the rise of nitzhonot trance, around 1999, i felt a deviation from the essential spirit.
Nitzhonot was a step away from the style of greek/israeli uplifting goa trance (nitzho-Goa), into a more commercial sound with usually major influences from arabic/middle-eastern oriental music.

Let's not forget that beyond symbolisms, hindu traditional music's tone and pattern has been not just an influence but more like a generator of goa trance music, more like gave shape.

But between these, there's a difference in perception.
In Hindu traditional music, a hypnotic and mystical feeling
can oftenly be met or achieved (which is essential for the spirit of Goa Trance), while middle-eastern orientalism is more known for a cheerful uplifting rousement, and oftenly causing a more lighthearted mood.

Of course, i'm sure that might be few exceptions to that and without even counting the Sufism musical heritage which is something different as far as i know.
As different also is ancient egyptian music, which is more solemn & majestic oftenly inducing melancholic or nostalgic feelings.

So, does arabic/middle-eastern/belly-dance music fits in goa trance?
I believe that mostly doesn't. But that's depends also from the sound and the motives. There are examples of synthesis from the old days in goa and nitzho-goa of a good harmonizing and lately i have liked alot the second album from Mindsphere, Patience for Heaven, which has such influences but more temperate and covered in an amazing surrounding goa trance sound.

Of course, all these are my personal view and from what i have seen, it is a matter of "love it" or "hate it" preference. Maybe, central & northern europeans or americans see middle eastern orientalism as more exotic, as a diversion on ethic influences.

radi6404 · May 17, 2013

Ofcourse it does not fit to goa trance and it is overused in new goa trance. The best melodies for goa trance are those that have been used in the 90s, too orientalic melodies do not fit in my opinion and change the music from being uplifting and powerful into oriental afternoon tea music. I think it has to stop but who am I to say how newschool goa should sound.

Agneton · May 17, 2013

1) Nitzho-goa as a term was only invented in 2009 although you could indeed categorize some music into that subgenre dating from before the actual term (like, er...Cyber Planet, or my own album from 2008?), I think it would be a bridge too far to classify the whole greek and israeli 95-99 scene as Nitzho-Goa...even if by that you only mean artists such as Shidapu, Mystica, Psycho Meditation, Kalium, etc...and not the likes of MFG, Astral etc.

2) Although I recognize there's a whole lot of Belly dance and/or superoriental Nitzhonot out there, I think it's just plain wrong to classify the music as such. It's hyper-melodical, not necessarily hyper-arabic (or whatever)...check

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDMXHRbPiGI

or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fru7TZ3b93. Are these relying on arabic scales? No! Are they classified as Nitzhonot? Yes!

My point would be, saying that Nitzhonot is the cause of all new Goa sounding oriental, is just not right! :/

3) More importantly, I do not agree with the idea of (quite) some people that new Goa is mostly, or always, oriental-sounding. E-mantra? Artifact303? Afgin? Filteria(post2010)? Space Elves? Aerosis? Merr0w? Crossing Mind? Almost anything from Cronomi? List could go on...

IMO there isn't even enough of the hyper oriental stuff out there!

4) If there was something that really got me hooked to Goa trance, I mean oldschool Goa, back when newschool didn't really exist yet, it were the oriental melodies...Lepton Head (Deedrah remix), Vimana, last melody in Lunar Civlization track, etc, you know, that's the stuff that will always stay hooked in my mind

May 17, 2013

Dear Agneton,

I understand your objections as a nitzhonot/goa fan you are (and i respect that), but i try to be careful to what i write.

1) Yes, as i stated greek/israeli uplifting goa trance such as Cyan, Shidapu, Holymen (1st), Luminus, Zootrax, Mike Verros, etc..

2) I don't disagree. That's why i said usually. I have the opinion that was (& maybe still is) a frequent influence. No problem with that and why should i have since i am not a fan.

4) I believe i've made some categorizations on this issue.

Furthermore, i stated of exceptions in existance of good harmonizing, like MOS-TheWaveInside etc..

3) I have a different opinion on this. It's not few times i have listen to this kind of influences. I'm not saying it's the rule here but it's quite frequent.

Agneton · May 17, 2013

Hey man, thanks for your clarifications there!

Still, the remaining issue stays for now: is newschool goa all about those oriental influences, or not? I really think it's not! Just remember picking up my first newschool CD (Apsara) and plugging it in...there was only one track that gave me those oriental "chills", namely the Lost Buddha tune. None of the other came even remotely close to that kind of melody usage, in my opinion...

Happy to hear more opinions on this!

Procyon · May 18, 2013

When I first knew Goa trance, the patters that stuck to my mind is the one found in Sheyba's "Tribute", which I forever will associate with India, and a religious side of Goa that indeed existed in the early days. So Goa trance to me is the Southeastern Asia sounds incorporated in the electronic music, and also the early acid elements found in so many old school tracks. When I heard the first non-Southern Asia melodies in some tracks (like in Mystica, as mentioned properly by Agneton), I liked it, but could not associate it with Goa trance as I knew it.

So, IMO, arabic melodies fits in the Goa scene. But they're not Goa to purists. Good thing is that there are fewer and fewer Goa purists these days

Procyon · May 18, 2013

Hey man, thanks for your clarifications there!

Still, the remaining issue stays for now: is newschool goa all about those oriental influences, or not? I really think it's not! Just remember picking up my first newschool CD (Apsara) and plugging it in...there was only one track that gave me those oriental "chills", namely the Lost Buddha tune. None of the other came even remotely close to that kind of melody usage, in my opinion...

Happy to hear more opinions on this!

Me too. I don't associate new school Goa to oriental sounds. Curiously, when I hear a new track I unconsciously look for that.

Imba · May 18, 2013

CoLoUr DoTZ · May 18, 2013

For me the difference between Goa and Psy trance was always that. The oriental melodies.

Nowadays I would label some of the new stuff without oriental stuff Goa, only because it sounds closer to the old

Goa-Psytrance of the 90s that to the new spidernet of modern Psytrance styles.

Padmapani · May 18, 2013

For me the difference between Goa and Psy trance was always that. The oriental melodies.

so, deep space 5D was psytrance instead of goa?

i think oriental is not a good word to use here. oriental (depending on the definition) also includes indian-style scales/melodies/harmonies/"feeling", which the threadstarter or i have no problem with. most of old goa trance with "oriental" melodies (exceptions mostly coming from israel) had a deep, mystical tone and uses those foreign scales in a, i don't know, more "indian" way (take morphem - magma for example. when i was in goa, i had to listen to this one on repeat because for me it harmonises so well with that place), while a lot of newer goa trance uses foreign scales mostly in a way, that instantly reminds me of the artist name "drunk pharaoh" (regardless if the music is similar to the original drunk pharaoh or not).

Imba · May 18, 2013

Drunk Pharaoh aka Filipe Santos

CoLoUr DoTZ · May 18, 2013

Yeap you are right, oriental is maybe not the right adjective as is a very broad term. Hindu melodies is what I would relate more to Goa trance. All the rest psytrance, but everything is subjective and the line between is not thin. I label Hallucinogen as psytrance, same as Koxbox or Total eclipse, but for many they are goa artists.

It all comes to when and where you came in contact with the genre. So in the middle 90s Goa was the hindu and early trance till 95-96 and when shopping you could find a psy trance records crate with a few goa records under a tab labeled "Goa trance". Parties in europe were advertised as Psychedelic trance and it was very rare seeing flyers with the word Goa on them.

I guess for the people that got later into trance, at the time of infected an the israeli pose, Goa trance was the stuff from the 90s that somehow sounded old compare to the early 2000s, so the more melodic stuff is goa, and the more energetic Psy trance. Now psy trance is not enough to label the music, and one need to make sure if is darkpsy, progressive psy, goa trance, suomi, etc.....