Guest Nefarious Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Lmao @ towelie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Lmao @ Gore. EA: if you know so much about Dali, you should also know that he (and most surrealists for that matter) was notorious for making fun of the people interviewing him. I recall a poem he wrote in which he was telling a potential buyer that his long mustache acted as an antenna that captured waves sent by another world and that after that he painted what he "recieved". A good artist always needs a good story behind his work to sell it... ;-) SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grotezchky Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Most of you are doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Otto Matta Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 He had a highly developed ego, that's for damn sure, snu. Gore - Re-read what I wrote. I think we could all aspire to being narcotics as people, as opposed to narcotics users only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AutoMath Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 If you would replace the word "drug" with "spirituality" (or notion of something higher, whatever you choose to call it e.g. Plato's world of Ideas or similar concepts) I would completely agree with you. But to simply state that the drugs are the creative force or inspiration behind great art I find to be complete bullshit. That IMHO is really to downgrade all good art & artists throughout history. Another thing is Lemmy, that by reading these books that concentrates on drugs relation to art does not justify your beliefs. In these books the author usually writes from a set viewpoint / belief and then ad hoc tries to substantiate their claims. However you could probably find equally many if not at least x3 as many books that states the opposite. Actually I think your belief that all (great) art is influenced, inspired orwhatnot by drugs is a belief that might be shared by the majority of our fellow psytrance fans, but NOT shared by most people in the world including the scholarly art-establishment and the majority of all artists themselves. Then I'm not anyone to argue against that drugs are a good way of bringing out this (higher influence) in us. That I believe to be true just like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .::E.P Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 some people need new brains after doing too much drugs!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happybeing Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 some people take drugs, some people dont, some people used to but dont anymore, this is because brain chemistry and personality are unique, however, everyone has a sense of self which is compelled to justify its actions to others but there are no right or wrong answers. if you truly love trance music and life drugs really arnt necessary, having said that... i love psychadelic drugs and music seperatly or together, i accept that drugs are bad so dont smoke drink or even consume caffine but psychadelic drugs give me a big enough reward to abuse my body and mind (for the time being). altered states of consciousness can be inspirational but consider the thousands of people who take drugs and are not particularly creative, people will always love music, people will always be creative and drugs will always be fun, for that reason the scene can last forever with or without drugs as long as babies are born and grow up. drugs temporarily cange your perception of the world and can pemenantly change your view of life but they can not permenantly change your state of being and for that reason are not a long term option for anyone who wants to evolve in harmony with the nature of the universe. or perhaps iv just taken far too much acid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Otto Matta Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Nicely put, AutoMath. Would be really depressing if Lemmi's statement - "you know which artists create without using drugs? Those who aren't famous and are forgotten by time..." - were actually true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 OK, I went a little overboard with that staement, but I hold my beliefs that at least 80% of good artists are massively into drugs... but I do agree with Automath's statement on "spirituality", drugs are somehow a way of "tuning into" that "other world", others (VERY few) do it naturally, and still others suffer from temporal lobe epilepsy but I guess that this topic has already been overdone so I'll just stop here SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Towelie Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 na its closer to 78% >;P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .::E.P Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I'd say....let's put lot's acid in all the druggies beers and let's scare them so they never come back from their trips... Then we wont have many junkies left in the scene anymore :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sascha Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 You have to ask youself the question... What is it all for?? We born...We live...We eat...We dance..We die.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grahf Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 For those of you taking the more "anti-drug" position in this thread (and all others as well of course!), I recommend that you pick up Terence Mckenna's Food of the Gods. I'm reading it right now; it's quite a fascinating book which makes the claim that complex relationships with plants and drugs have been a part of human society for as long as we have been human. I won't go into the specifics of his argument, but if he's right, then it seems very narrow minded to simply say, "all drugs are bad, don't use them" and leave it at that. For one, what is a drug? There are obviously many types of drugs, which have wildly variable effects. (shrooms vs alchohol vs tobacco, for example) In order to fit all these things under the banner of a "drug," the definition is going to be quite wide. I will use: "anything that modifies consciousness." Well guess what... that means just about anything is, or could be, a drug! TV especically... SOME drugs will fuck you up after prolonged use. SOME drugs are heavily addictive. Others... seem to be pretty much ok to use. In general, and in my opinion, natural plant-based drugs with a long history of human use are quite safe. Just because a drug is culturally sanctioned by modern western civilization does not mean it is safe. In fact... alchohol, tobacco, and caffeine, three of mainstream society's favorite drugs, are definitely not good for you at all in large or habitual doses. Contrast these to psylocybin mushrooms, which have been used ritually by Mexican Indians and other shamanic cultures for thousands of years. I think if there was any problem with the mushrooms, it would have been discovered long ago. What I am trying to get you all to see is that this drug issue is very complex and convoluted, and cannot be dismissed out of hand. Now to the issue of trance, and creativity... I think it's pretty obvious (to me at least...) that goa trance was not thought up by sober minds. Obviously that does not mean that only stoned people can make or appreciate goa trance. But it was the orginal creation that required special inspiration to coelesce. Creativity does not require drugs, but drugs (especially the psychedelic ones) will certainly alter where that creativity goes. Here is a simple an cliched example: before drugs one draws houses, families, portraits, etc (in other words ordinary reality). After drugs: fractals, aliens, cyberpunk cityscapes, etc, that is to say, things that are more in the realm of the imagination. I believe drug-induced creation has always been and will always be more forward thinking than sober creation, and the act of becoming in the realm of the imagination is the key reason for this. (As a tangent - I suspect that the reason Shpongle is so mindblowing compared to other psy music is because it is DMT-influenced, instead of merely acid.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gav Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Someone, please tell me why drugs shoold create a "false" sense of reality, i myself is confused about this, i feel that more "natural" means of getting in a different state of mind is to prefer, but why? is there anything unreal about the experiences on drugs, does drugs themselves have any potential in giving specific experiences, hallucinations etc, that is unreal and comes from anywhere else than yourself or is it a mean to get "in the mood", why does so many people see it as unnatural? im not sure, i hope that this thread isnt dead yet, im especially thinking about the visionary works by people like mckenna, leary etc, which is very interesting and kind of uplifting visionary, but is there REALLY any potential in drugs in comparison to meditation etc???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 "is there REALLY any potential in drugs in comparison to meditation etc????" well I'd say that the main potential is that with drugs you can "get there" in like half an hour whereas with meditating you'll need about half a lifetime... OK, so the result is temporary with drugs and permanent with yoga, but still, how many people living in today's western culture can truly say that they can dedicate their lives to meditating with a 9-5 job, a wife and 2 kids? IMO for us, drugs is the ONLY way to "get there"!! SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gav Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Yeah, actually for me to, but i think, that drugs, meditation etc. should learn you things, that stay in your heart, not being a relief from everyday reality, it should guide and inprint an experience, but how often doesnt "the light" of a druginduced psychedelic experience fade away after you come down, the days, months after?? i myself have found loads of wisdom in these experiences, but i see myself doing all sorts of stuff sometimes, that i could have cried over in a deep psy-experience, maybe the "widom" of drugs is too much for most people, and maybe meditation experiences develops at the right pace? taking drugs and doing yoga is in my theoretical opinion a very good combination, but never did it, thought it was kind of blasfemic, dont know? DOES DRUGS HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BRING HUMANITY TO THE NEXT LEVEL??? Smiles to you too my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 well, I guess that's just a question of "rebecoming your natural self". The way I see it, with drugs (or through meditation), you get a glimpse of how you'd be without the ego (or with a diminished ego). Of course, once the effect is gone, you're ego will come back so it's back to square 1. The only thing you can do is try to remember your experiences and act accordingly when sober, but I agree, it's not easy... SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gav Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 no certaintly not : ) maybe i simply was thinking about healing potential, dunno. and it was a question of (re)becoming...something, but i always wonder if drugs really can help that process, drugs are certaintly useful for a lot of things (some mentioned), creativity, relaxness, social behaviour, lung cancer : ), etc. etc., but maybe nobody really can answer the question of whether drugs are useful or not for "spiritual" progress, i always wonder why yogic personalities and all the big established religions is against the use of drugs and proclaim the way they create false and temporary experiences of the "great beyond", who can really answer it? was leary and friends really lured into this mischievous and false world of druguse or is the religious prohibition just a precaution??? thank you for your answers Lemmiwinks, but i s´till wonder if drugs really "gets you there", it feels like it, but im not sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 "i always wonder why yogic personalities and all the big established religions is against the use of drugs " well actually I recall reading some extracts from a famous yogi saying that he saw drug usage (mushrooms in particular) as one way to "get there". He also said that once you know what to look for and how to get there, a simple thing as taking a bath can help you even more :-) and let's not forget about that great "universal" religion from which all religion takes roots: shamanism... they're definately not against drugs either :-) SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Otto Matta Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Gav - I relate to your skepticism. *** I suppose it all depends on how the drugs are used, and for what purpose. Most drug usage is done on a recreational, escapist and hedonistic level, to complement an experience or to belong to a crowd, culture, etc. This is not going to save the world. If anything, it will create a bunch of withdrawn youngsters with a twisted view of reality. But I suppose, when treated correctly and in moderation, particular drugs can open up new angles on the world, creating knowledge not accessible before. Granted. However, I think it's a big mistake to associate drugs with meditation. If the reasons for that are not obvious, perhaps one should take a break from drugs for a while, and perhaps also put down the Leary and McKenna literature. There's a great big world/universe out [in] there beyond drug culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gav Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 What reasons are you thiking about Otto Matta? I have actually taken a long pause from the psychedelic stuff (besides thc), but i feel i need it to get some guidance actually. I dont think people should associate those two things togehter, but what is the hazard of using them together, for exampel lsd or mushrooms and meditation/yoga? Of course the world is bigger than the drug culture and i myself dont see drugs as "the way", but perhaps a part of it, maybe initially to give a kick in the right direction? What where you thinking about, which obvious reasons are there? Im interested in that point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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