staffan Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Top, Doof is a top player. Grazie mille, great album. =)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I was expecting a bit clearer hi-hats, more bass and reduced mids (e.g. the climax in Let's Turn On or Angelina is painful on headphones), because original tracks are often "screamy" without being "punchy". Breaks my heart to find out it is exactly the opposite - the "remaster" of original CD ruined this for me so much, that I can't even get around to properly listening to the "remix" CD because I fear of being even more disappointed... What I can hear is that music was made louder (I need to increase the volume on my player by 50-70% for original CD to get to the volume of the remaster), in some tracks additional reverb is added blurring the sound and e.g. in "Let's turn on" when kick comes in at 4:02, the hi-hats 'duck' because of low-end taking all the frequency space (my guess - because of the reverb). But the worst offender is equalization - instead of emphasizing the top-end of hihats, a mid-range (my guess 12-14kHz) was boosted, resulting in those "screamy" parts to stand out even more and in an unpleasant way (check the gated chords at 5:30 in "Sunshrine", it's even MUCH worse on the remix CD...). Because of that my favorite track - "Destination Bom" sounds 2x louder than the rest (and hurts the ears if you listen to whole CD as I do) whereas on original album it was in balance with the other tracks. To see that, cycle between "Let's Turn On" and "Destination Bom" on original CD and then on the remaster - on the former they sound similar and uniform, on the latter - as if they were taken from different CDs. I'm afraid the mastering engineer was working on them track-by-track basis, trying the get "the most" out of single individual tune, instead of mastering the album as a whole. I don't know how much Colin OOOD is charging for his services, but he's worth every penny based on all his work I heard, because he *understands* what go/psy is about and what is important there, whereas the guys at Analog Dimension Mastering don't even mention you as their client... Don't ever skimp on mastering, especially if it is such an important release as this one... The unfortunate conclusion is if I want to listen to original tunes, I will listen to original CD because remaster made it worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goa constrictor Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 That's rough to hear. I haven't snagged a copy yet, and still will because I want to support and snag the remixes, but that's really too bad about the mastering. =( Gutted if it's true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 That's rough to hear. I haven't snagged a copy yet, and still will because I want to support and snag the remixes, but that's really too bad about the mastering. =( Gutted if it's true... Do you have the original? If not, then it might not be so bad for you - on contrary, it might actually be fantastic! It's especially problematic for me, because I have the original, I know it by heart and its only flaw was a little murky top-end (could be because of samples used and therefore maybe not easy to fix), but otherwise it sounds fantastic still today, just like most of old TIP Records releases. I hoped for the remaster to improve on that very factor, but instead it introduces - for me - a whole bunch of other issues, so I'd rather listen to original, pump the volume up and gently equalize it myself. I also know that people rarely listen to whole albums / compilations at once, whereas for me I never listen to individual tracks, so the mastering consistency across the CD is very important for me but doesn't have to be for others. So, all above was IMO. Please buy the CD, support DAT Records and judge for yourself. It is not tragically bad (far from it!) just not what I personally expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goa constrictor Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Oh, I have the original. I was real excited hoping that the remaster would beef up the bass a bit and make some of the melodic 303s that he wrote more vibrant Just aggressive loud mids is going to hurt. The OG suffers from that era of shit TIP mastering (like the Orange Comp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draeke Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 I'd only answer briefly to this comment of yours Antic, and I respect it since it's your personal opinion and taste but at the same time I have to state that: I have had so many people who wrote to me saying that the original CD sounds way better than the TIP version and if you think A.D. did not work on the album as a whole, that is your opinion, but far from the truth. We have had him working on the album for a very long time and we heard first versions of mastering, gave comment and got others versions, actually the final pressed album is the 3rd revision of the mastering and a team of five, plus Nick, listened to it all, before finalizing it. So allow me to be really in shock for your review/opinion. Nick himself was the final judge. That said I respect your point of view and hope you will listen to the remixed album because it's really worth it. Finally, if you are up for a challenge and since it seems you are an audio engineer yourself, why don't you remaster the original album and send me a link to how you think it should really sound? I'd be curious to hear . Edit: Oh I almos forgot, there's also the humble opinion of Psyreviews to check out, if you want to decide if it's worth buying http://psyreviews.net/2015/04/doof-lets-turn-on-remixed-remastered-dat/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transistor91 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 if you think A.D. did not work on the album as a whole, that is your opinion, but far from the truth. Since he was talking about the volume, it's not just a matter of opinion... it's simple to factually verify his statement that the volume of the tracks relative to one another was changed. It will also be simple to check whether the end result was the most loudness out of each track, or not. If so, that would suggest that the tracks individually had their volume increased. But maybe they just didn't like the original difference in volume between those tracks and it was valid to change that.... I have had so many people who wrote to me saying that the original CD sounds way better than the TIP version.... We have had him working on the album for a very long time the final pressed album is the 3rd revision of the mastering and a team of five, plus Nick, listened to it all, before finalizing it. Nick himself was the final judge. All of those statements are basically irrelevant. Better mastering is not decided by popularity, how long or much effort went into it, what one specific person thought of it, or how many revisions were made. Sorry to say. It is subjective, but antic gave very detailed criticism which should be addressed by actually listening to the parts he pointed out, rather than listing a bunch of irrelevant statements. I'll be comparing the original with the remaster myself, very soon, to see if I agree with antic's criticism or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goa constrictor Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 All of those statements are basically irrelevant. Better mastering is not decided by popularity, how long or much effort went into it, what one specific person thought of it, or how many revisions were made. Sorry to say. It is subjective, but antic gave very detailed criticism which should be addressed by actually listening to the parts he pointed out, rather than listing a bunch of irrelevant statements. I'll go ahead and call this statement out as bullshit. To be fair, if Doof stands behind this mastering, then it isn't irrelevant. It's actually the mastering preferred by the artist, which is what you accept. One still might not like the mastering, or whatever else someone would be nitpicking at the moment, but to call it irrelevant is simply not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 So a few ppl a miserable that this wasn't mastered to their personal standard. Hilarious. If you don't like how about you go to all the effort Draeke has and do it your way instead of being cranky b*tches. I can tell you now I've got all releases including the crummy Twisted one and this has just really taken what was already the ultimate Goa album to a new level. Of course it could've been done differently, but seriously get over yourselves and enjoy this experience for what it is. Life is to short for bitching, moments like these are fleeting. I can tell you that like my wife's father you can die unexpectedly any moment and its all gone just like that. This is a beautiful sonic artwork & a real pleasure to own and play. Seeing my 3 year old some dancing to Yoof Of The Galaxy this morning and stating "this is awesome" was magical. Thanks for the work Draeke and co. Keep it up and fuck the naysayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Ok, to narrow down the complaints on the "remastered" disc I have issues with 3 tracks: - "Let's Turn On" - added reverb muddies the sound (it's less clear) and overloads the sound spectrum, creating clashing of kick / hats which is the most apparent at 4:02 - "Destination Bom" - is much louder than the rest of tracks, because of additional boost given to the main lead melody that's there for most of the track; actually, the whole track sounds brighter than the original, resulting in the 'punch' delivered by THAT transition at 3:55 to be less dramatic - the genious interplay between bass, acid and 'jumpy' hihats doesn't stand out as much anymore, - "Star Above Parvatti" - is so compressed, that the dub bass line starting at 5:00 gets heavily distorted, made 'fuzzy' and detuned especially when the percussions come in at 5:30 As I said, those things are not tragic and don't make it unlistenable, unless you're intimately familiar with the original then they stick out. So a few ppl a miserable that this wasn't mastered to their personal standard. Hilarious. If you don't like how about you go to all the effort Draeke has and do it your way instead of being cranky b*tches. I can tell you now I've got all releases including the crummy Twisted one and this has just really taken what was already the ultimate Goa album to a new level. Of course it could've been done differently, but seriously get over yourselves and enjoy this experience for what it is. [...] Keep it up and fuck the naysayers. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transistor91 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Seeing my 3 year old some dancing to Yoof Of The Galaxy this morning and stating "this is awesome" was magical. There we have it folks: the final proof that the remaster is good. I don't care what draeke says, what Nick says, or what anyone else on here says; if Balance's 3 year old child likes it, then we know it's a high quality remaster. Fuck yea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transistor91 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I've done some A/B comparison flipping between the original TIP Records mastering and the DAT Records remastering of most of the tracks. What I've noticed is that the remaster is LOUDER and that it has less dynamics (all sounds are generally very LOUD). In most tracks the remaster is brighter as well, and some have extra reverb. Another track that was ruined IMO was Star Above Parvati. It's unfortunate, but I guess the loudness war is still ongoing in Italy. Personally, I will stick with the original. Although the remastering is probably not too bad or noticeable for users who aren't familiar with the original, it's the type of mastering that would give me listening fatigue. I'm not a huge fan of very harsh, loud, and noisy sounding goa trance music. I prefer softer, more organic, and more dynamics. But I've noticed on numerous releases that DAT Records seems to like loud, harsh, and compressed mastering. Just my honest $0.02, and I don't care how much love and care anyone put into it -- that doesn't change the facts. P.S. - I encourage the "naysayers" to do a comparison themselves if they care about the quality of the mastering. And if they don't, then I'm simply not interested in hearing what vile things they have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelic Alien Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I don't really know about the mastering... It is loud, but it did not bother me like with the latest Astral Projection album for instance. Where it was painful. It's easy to see with a spectral "picture" of the mastering, no? As for the music, I am super happy to have the original now! It is amazing! But the remixes are not that special... The originals are always better. (why is that so often? Remixes are often minor versions of the original, is it because the ears are used to the original?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 As for the music, I am super happy to have the original now! It is amazing! But the remixes are not that special... The originals are always better. (why is that so often? Remixes are often minor versions of the original, is it because the ears are used to the original?) I'd say it's because artists would choose the best version of the track for release? Also, in those times remixes were usually done live, by tweaking the knobs on mixing desk fed from the sequencer (hence the popularity of 'desk mixes'), so they were usually simpler, more static & trancey with less fancy transitions, etc. especially if it's one person band. Album versions were given more attention, likely recorded track-by-track, re-sampled and then heavily edited. I actually like a lot of the remixes - here, but also in general - because they're more 'raw' and 'primal' as a result of the above. It's especially cool when there are mistakes & errors during the mixing, that make it special and more 'human' But anyway, don't distract me from bitching & being miserable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technosomy Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 LOL.. nice one Draeke, order# 666! because in my dreams...nicks always there...twisting my mind and bringing me to despair!!!! yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technosomy Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I've done some A/B comparison flipping between the original TIP Records mastering and the DAT Records remastering of most of the tracks. What I've noticed is that the remaster is LOUDER and that it has less dynamics (all sounds are generally very LOUD). In most tracks the remaster is brighter as well, and some have extra reverb. Another track that was ruined IMO was Star Above Parvati. It's unfortunate, but I guess the loudness war is still ongoing in Italy. Personally, I will stick with the original. Although the remastering is probably not too bad or noticeable for users who aren't familiar with the original, it's the type of mastering that would give me listening fatigue. I'm not a huge fan of very harsh, loud, and noisy sounding goa trance music. I prefer softer, more organic, and more dynamics. But I've noticed on numerous releases that DAT Records seems to like loud, harsh, and compressed mastering. Just my honest $0.02, and I don't care how much love and care anyone put into it -- that doesn't change the facts. P.S. - I encourage the "naysayers" to do a comparison themselves if they care about the quality of the mastering. And if they don't, then I'm simply not interested in hearing what vile things they have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draeke Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 you made me laugh hard and yes, you did your homework , very good! @Balance: thanks for the support, don't worry I know it's hard to beat psyshop if you are in Australia. That said I also offer immediate digital download when the CD is bought after the release date (such as now) and whoever bought the cd before the release, got a link by email the day 24 to download the album in both mp3 and flac and the full artwork If you buy the digital download version on the DAT website you will have also the same content now! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technosomy Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 you made me laugh hard and yes, you did your homework , very good! @Balance: thanks for the support, don't worry I know it's hard to beat psyshop if you are in Australia. That said I also offer immediate digital download when the CD is bought after the release date (such as now) and whoever bought the cd before the release, got a link by email the day 24 to download the album in both mp3 and flac and the full artwork If you buy the digital download version on the DAT website you will have also the same content now! Cheers! does that make me a bitch to now! as for postage i admit i did the same to my old friend...(sorry) as you know i have almost stopped buying cd's (think this is my second all year) as well as am off to canada as part of the course i am doing to get out of these early starts and work for myself so need every cent...but means to and end am sure the cd's are awsome...looking forward to hearing it....as for future dat material (for the record..dat stuff still remain in my shrunken collection) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 After some PMs with Fede I believe some clarification is due. Firsly, my "complaints" result from the fact that I'm very sensitive about such things because: I know this CD by heart & love it, therefore wanted this to be the definitive edition, I almost 100% of the time listen to music in headphones while working / chilling, so I know every little detail - for better and for worse Almost always I listed to albums/comps in their entirety, so overall sound level doesn't bother me (there's volume knob for that!) but I have issue with differences between tracks on the same CD, I have basic+ knowledge of music writing & production, so I'm able to identify, name and understand the issues I hear. I've been listening to goa/psy-trance since 1997, so I've heard it all As I said above, after repeated listen I only actually have issues with 3 tracks - "Let's Turn On", "Destination Bom" and "Star Above Parvati" - that *IMO* and *for my taste* were not properly mastered, i.e. either over-compressed and/or too loud compared to the rest. Others really benefit from new mastering! I know that's not fair & can look disrespectful on my behalf, but my comments are really borne out of good intentions - to help improve quality of the releases in this scene by offering constructive and polite (I hope...) criticism. Things like that - and similar, happening on latest Cellestial Intelligence, Radical Distortion, V/A Flight 604-II, etc. - could've easily been avoided had label owners given more attention to what they release. If they'd listen to the remastered CD on good headphones at the times I indicated it is clear as day there's an issue - there's clashing frequencies, there's ear-piercing synth leads, there's detuned & fuzzy bass-line that were not in the original release. I'm not going to pretend those things are not there. Having said that, I've been listening to the remix CD since this morning 2-3 times (and I plan to take it jogging in the evening), I already love it and there I don't have complaints because I can't tell whether 'imperfections' - and there are none in those 3 tracks mentioned above - were always there or they were introduced in the mastering process. I just enjoy the music and it is really great! Anyway, I hope no harm was done & the CDs will sell like hot cakes regardless of my whining - Fede, Nick & DAT Records deserve it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Fede, Nick & DAT Records deserve it! Don't forget Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masen023 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Don't forget Mark AMEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transistor91 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I listen on HD800 headphones and used the foobar2000 ABX comparator to switch between the tracks from old/new mastering in real time. Differences in mastering are very obvious. Are the differences good or bad? That's a very subjective question. For me they are bad because they are louder, harsher, brighter, and noisier, which I don't like and which gives me listening fatigue, and because I already liked the originals as they were. But others may prefer this mastering. I only hope that those who like it don't speak out of ignorance but actually do a comparison so that they can have an informed and intelligent opinion. Unfortunately I know that most users on here would never say anything remotely negative about it because of their emotions towards draeke. Anyways, here's a waveform comparison of Star Above Parvati for anyone interested. (Similar story in other tracks as well, I'm sure.) Original: Remaster: Original (zoomed in on peak): Remaster (clipping?): Remaster (clipping?): But hey, at least it's now loud enough that draeke can hear it over top his screeching Italian grandma (without even having to touch the volume knob!)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Hey Zoomorph How about you save this for a general thread or reviews? This is the promotional section, not the area to pay out unfairly on someone's hard work because you're a troll. Cheers The big cheese I listen on HD800 headphones and used the foobar2000 ABX comparator to switch between the tracks from old/new mastering in real time. Differences in mastering are very obvious. Are the differences good or bad? That's a very subjective question. For me they are bad because they are louder, harsher, brighter, and noisier, which I don't like and which gives me listening fatigue, and because I already liked the originals as they were. But others may prefer this mastering. I only hope that those who like it don't speak out of ignorance but actually do a comparison so that they can have an informed and intelligent opinion. Unfortunately I know that most users on here would never say anything remotely negative about it because of their emotions towards draeke. Anyways, here's a waveform comparison of Star Above Parvati for anyone interested. (Similar story in other tracks as well, I'm sure.) Original: Remaster: Original (zoomed in on peak): Remaster (clipping?): Remaster (clipping?): But hey, at least it's now loud enough that draeke can hear it over top his screeching Italian grandma (without even having to touch the volume knob!)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuser Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 easy bros easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Hey Zoomorph How about you save this for a general thread or reviews? This is the promotional section, not the area to pay out unfairly on someone's hard work because you're a troll. Cheers The big cheese 'Trolling' is when someone prevents others from having a civilised, on-topic discussion by acting emotional, calling names, etc. - guess who acts like that here? Also, this is THE place to discuss issues such as this so that the potential buyers could know if what they plan to spend their money on is worth it. Having said that - this double CD is EASILY worth the money! The original music is still one of the top goa-trance albums, remixes are really good and while the mastering could *IMO* be better it does improve majority of the tracks, so that they don't stick out played back-to-back with more current music. Please support DAT Records by buying directly from the label, because they really deserve it! If few $$$ extra for postage breaks your home budget, you should probably rethink buying music altogether or cut on booze/beer/drugs/whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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