Doof - Let's Turn On - Remixed & Remastered - DATCD006

[Balance]

Actually I didn't buy direct mostly because the downloading derive offered by DAT does not work in Australia, infoundnthat out purchasing all their other release direct. I already stated that I'll be making a payment of the value of hence to DAT directly, I don't think the postal service needs a donation of 11euro from me.

 

Secondly, if you can't handle the way I cussed then I definitely suggest you don't visit Australia as most Aussies use such language amongst friends as everyday chit chat. Your not enjoy a proper Aussie pub but I guess you could hang out at the pussy little bars I the inner city where ppl pretend this wasn't a country built on the backs of criminals.

[transistor91]

I was planning to ignore Balance (already reported his pointless spam above when I first saw it). Of course he's trolling again and trying to bait me with his vituperation and ad hominem attacks.

 

Hopefully, when a moderator gets on, all of this spam will be deleted or moved to a separate thread and we can continue talking about Doof - Let's Turn On.

 

Secondly, if you can't handle the way I cussed then I definitely suggest you don't visit Australia as most Aussies use such language amongst friends as everyday chit chat. Your not enjoy a proper Aussie pub but I guess you could hang out at the pussy little bars I the inner city where ppl pretend this wasn't a country built on the backs of criminals.

Take his tough guy talk with a grain of salt since he was crying in the past about getting beat up at bars ("I used to always get punched when I went to raves, pubs, clubs or gigs."). I think he romanticizes just how tough bars are and likes to dream that he got beat up by the biggest, meanest, Hell's Angels bikers in the outback.

[Psychedelic Alien]

There is nothing wrong with discussing mastering I think.

The spectral view "zoomorph" posted sais it all I think. I also saw comments on discogs of people that did not like the harsh mastering. I'm sure Draeke can learn out of this, and change some things next time. This is constructive I think!

 

For me the mastering was not a big issue. Rather the remixes which were good but nothing more... Luckely the first cd is magical! But I heard it already of course, stil, nice to have in my collection!

[StratosOZ]

I personally think its a bit wanky to sit there and analyse graphs of music so that you can persuade people that something they like, or worked hard to make, sounds crap. If you like it, say so. If you don't say so. Then move on.

 

Here's a secret: Draeke didn't personalise this album to your tastes. If that was his plan, he would've asked you what you like before he did it.

 

Thought I'd give my opinion, since everyboy else is.

[transistor91]

I personally think its a bit wanky to sit there and analyse graphs of music so that you can persuade people that something they like, or worked hard to make, sounds crap. If you like it, say so. If you don't say so. Then move on.

 

Here's a secret: Draeke didn't personalise this album to your tastes. If that was his plan, he would've asked you what you like before he did it.

 

Thought I'd give my opinion, since everyboy else is.

 

Unlike you, I don't care about any old idiot's poorly expressed opinion on the internet. The reason why is that most idiots' opinions are uninformed, unintelligible, full of fallacious reasoning, and so on. Yours is a great example. You've added absolutely nothing of value with your post. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean that you have to, too.

 

Now if you had some charts, evidence, numbers, data, or something intelligent to add to the discussion, then I'd care a lot more about your "opinion".

 

Actually, the entire last page of this thread is a sad demonstration of the state of our world. I posted some EVIDENCE. My post was followed by numerous objections. 0% of those objections contained any evidence. 100% of those objections contained personal attacks and logical fallacies.

[juril]

.

[draeke]

First of all: there is no audible clipping in the release, not that I can hear.

We all are professionals here, some of us in the music business for over 30 years (some of my associates) and I won't accept false accusations.

 

Whenever we remaster something, it is possible a few inaudible frequencies, get out of the audible range because this way we recover hidden sounds and frequencies that although there, could not be heard before. And in the Doof original album that is exactly what has happened. So when people instead of listening with their eyes and spectrograms, listen with their ears will hear that there are no distortions in the album. It's louder, yes, but has it got audible clipping? Hello No!

 

I actually care about comments and feedback but it seems here we are going very much into details that some won't understand properly and thus be maybe discouraged to get the release. This is a promotional thread after all and I think that all of this, should maybe have been into a review thread. Actually I might ask an Admin, once a review gets posted, to move all the posts from here to there. It would make much more sense to me.

 

 

Cheers

[the goa constrictor]

I think the important thing to remember here is:

 

You can't waveform spectral display a sweet pink shirt....

 

[Jon Cocco]

I'm streaming the full album on Bandcamp below. The album sounds really good. I've never heard any of these remixes before. I wish the artist made Goa album sequels to "Let's Turn On" debut back in the day. He helped to define the genre. It's amazing what ONE album did. I wonder if he'll ever make another Goatrance song via compilation or album. It could be so magical and ascending. At least we have unreleased remixes of the classic after all these years. I never even knew these things existed. Nice work and hopefully a review thread will be up soon. It's so interesting to hear the alternate versions via different variations of the classic originals.

Corrected link
https://datrecords.bandcamp.com

[draeke]

Just FYI , that bandcamp is not run by me and if you want to buy the album THIS is the official bandcamp to be used:

 

https://datrecords.bandcamp.com/

 

I have already written to Arabesque asking for information! (more drama to the thread...)

[Guest antic]

First of all: there is no audible clipping in the release, not that I can hear.

 

As much as I respect you & your work this is simply not true (or you really can't hear, I don't know...) - please listen on good headphones to original and remastered CD:

- "Let's Turn On" at 4:02 you'll hear hi-hats "ducking" when kick comes in (wasn't the case on original),

- "Star Above Parvati" at 5:00 - 6:00 you'll hear that the dub bass-line doesn't sound clear anymore and it is actually clipping, resulting in certain frequencies (higher harmonics) to be cut off and the sound getting out of tune (again - this wasn't the case on original),

 

Not sure if it's technically "clipping" but both things are surely the result of compressing the sound to the point where available headroom is too small to fit all the sounds in their full sonic spectrum as intended by the artist.

 

In some of the tracks in busy moments I also hear kind of brief "phasing" (like phaser effect, or maybe notch filter) that definitely weren't there on the original, but those are so minuscule that I can't hope you'd notice them if you can't hear above issues with are much more obvious.

 

 

Here's a secret: Draeke didn't personalise this album to your tastes. If that was his plan, he would've asked you what you like before he did it.

 

Well, that's where we disagree - there are certain rules for mastering that should be always obeyed (e.g. no clipping, maintain dynamics, ensure proper stereo separation, keep similar levels across all tracks on album / comp, etc.) and on top of that you can experiment with adding your own "flavour" like making the sound warmer or harder/sharper, clear or reverbated, punchy or balanced. But you still need to adhere to the basic - I'd even say: technical - rules that separate good mastering from a bad one, just like you can't make real car with square wheels. For example I can easily tell that CD/track was mastered by Colin OOOD (e.g. Artha, Portamento, Nervasystem "4", Mind Rewind 1&2) because he has his very distinct style on top of being great engineer technically.

 

So, I'm not complaining about the flavor of the mastering (which I understand was to preserve original sound as much as possible & only make it a but louder/punchier), but about the actual basics, the mastering 101 so to say which were not adhered to.

[U.F.Orb]

Ordered this a few days ago, skipped the digital download, waiting eagerly for my copy to arrive.

Lets all remember that this is a celebration, unheared doof versions of his classics and a re-issue.

Dont be Elitist jerks, give feedback but do it with respect.

 

*fades into the dark listening to doof's second album 'It's About Time'*

[transistor91]

Here's one more fun piece of data for you guys, regarding the track "Let's Turn On". The numbers are one quantitative measurement of "dynamic range" and they're on a scale from 1 to 20 (higher is better).

 

Tantrance 1 (1995)

 

Yellow (1995)

 

Let's Turn On (1996)

 

Goa Trance (1997)

 

Goa-Head Vol. 2 (1997)

 

Let's Turn On - Remastered (2015)

Based on these numbers alone, the least compressed version of the track available may be the original album on TIP records. The worst available is this remaster.

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to compare the different versions of these tracks with your ears. Obviously that's the best, but it's not something I can do for you. I suggest using good headphones and something that will let you switch between the tracks in real time (something like the ABX comparator I used, but there's probably something better out there).

 

I'm not sure whether the dynamic range was lowered so as to increase the loudness (this is my fear), or whether draeke personally likes flat music. Anyway, that doesn't really matter and there's no changing it now. My agenda here isn't to discourage anyone from purchasing the release, only to inform them and maybe to encourage draeke to get a new mastering engineer for future releases.

 

I'm not an expert in this field, so others may have more to say on it. I see that draeke mentions his credentials a lot, but the things he says have not convinced me that he's an expert either. I'll be watching this thread.

 

Cheers

[Padmapani]

Mind Rewind 1&2

have you listened to rain on mind rewind 1? take the break at 2:50. you'll hear everything ducking when the kick comes in. the track is totally overcompressed.

but so what, it's a great track and even though i'd prefer a better, softer mastering it gets regular playtime and i enjoy it a lot. the same with the ap remixes.

 

of course you can cite lots of examples where colin has done a great job, but analog dimension have done at least as good work with etnica live in athens.

[Guest antic]

have you listened to rain on mind rewind 1? take the break at 2:50. you'll hear everything ducking when the kick comes in. the track is totally overcompressed.

but so what, it's a great track and even though i'd prefer a better, softer mastering it gets regular playtime and i enjoy it a lot. the same with the ap remixes.

 

of course you can cite lots of examples where colin has done a great job, but analog dimension have done at least as good work with etnica live in athens.

 

It's a different story, because I don't know how the original sounded (maybe 'ducking' was already there?) and therefore can't compare whether it was improved or made worse. Not the case with Doof's album.

[Padmapani]

- "Let's Turn On" at 4:02 you'll hear hi-hats "ducking" when kick comes in (wasn't the case on original),

- "Star Above Parvati" at 5:00 - 6:00 you'll hear that the dub bass-line doesn't sound clear anymore and it is actually clipping, resulting in certain frequencies (higher harmonics) to be cut off and the sound getting out of tune (again - this wasn't the case on original),

i just got my cd today and you're right. i hear these artifacts too. the mastering definitely isn't ideal with this remastered cd.

 

but tbh, i still prefer the new version due to better (/more modern?) tonal balance and the "creamier" low end - even if it's objectively not of higher quality

[technosomy]

just got mine

awsome!!!!

nothing untoward to hear here

nice one dat

keep up the good work!

[Guest antic]

i just got my cd today and you're right. i hear these artifacts too. the mastering definitely isn't ideal with this remastered cd.

 

but tbh, i still prefer the new version due to better (/more modern?) tonal balance and the "creamier" low end - even if it's objectively not of higher quality

 

Got my copy today as well & it's gorgeous, despite - as per usual when I really WANT some CD - it came with slightly damaged cover (one edge is teared off, probably during packing in pressing plant). Oh well, will probably buy 2nd copy somewhere down the line.

[w_lizzard]

I got my copy yesterday.

I've been listening to Remixed files for some days and I enjoyed.

Great release, nice poster and booklet, thanks DAT records!

[franki]

My copy came yesterday too.

I must say, it's worth the asking price for the remixes alone! Packaging is beautiful too.

[draeke]

@All: I have heard the above mentioned points at 4:02 in LTO and 5:00 to 6:00 in Star Above Parvati and cannot hear any clipping or any distortion, so that is definitely something for different ears. That said next time I will make sure to have a deeper visual analysis on the waveform together with a listening test so that if I see some sort of maximization I will ask to keep it a little lower, however I cannot stress enough that for me there is no clipping in any second of the remastered cd.

 

I also hope you will appreciate the huge booklet, the poster and the coloured sides of the music discs. And for whoever thinks the remixes are not really interesting, well that is really personal taste, for me and for many they are stellar and something that we were VERY lucky to have. We had to wait for almost twenty years for Nick to decide to allow anyone to release them. And DJs like Max of Etnica, Tsuyoshi and Simon have played these tracks in their dj sets all over the world, back in the glorious 90s. Now you can do the same, and there's that. If I kept these tracks on some DAT tapes and just used them in my performance would have been a shame, wouldn't it?

 

Remember it takes a great deal of energy, money and passion to release this music nowadays....

[franki]

The remixes are outstanding, IMO!

I've still got my original Doof CD that I bought in the 90s, so wasn't overly bothered that there was going to be a re-issue of that disc- but to have these extra alternative versions of all the album tracks is fantastic!

Many thanks!

[Guest antic]

@All: I have heard the above mentioned points at 4:02 in LTO and 5:00 to 6:00 in Star Above Parvati and cannot hear any clipping or any distortion, so that is definitely something for different ears. That said next time I will make sure to have a deeper visual analysis on the waveform together with a listening test so that if I see some sort of maximization I will ask to keep it a little lower, however I cannot stress enough that for me there is no clipping in any second of the remastered cd.

 

Ok, but that's not the point - have you COMPARED how they sound vs. the original? There's clear loss in sound integrity there, resulting directly from increased volume. It is not about it sounding bad, but about it sounding less good than the original (one more example: 6:10-6:15 in Let's Turn On due to sub-bass "stealing" headroom for lead melody). It's all very minuscule & 90% will not notice it and when pointed out to them would probably dismiss it as irrelevant, but FOR ME it is there and it bothers ME.

 

Having said that, it's great you at least acknowledge there's an issue there for some of us and that you promise more attention will be paid to testing that in the future. Thanks!

 

--------

 

And yes, it's still as magical as it was 15 years ago when I first bought it and its been in constant playback this week - at work, in the car & at home. The remix CD is - as some said - not really that exceptional, but there are moments of sheer beauty here & there (especially in tracks #1-4: little tweaks, additional layers, different transitions, etc.) and I actually prefer remixed versions of "Sunshrine", "Destination Bom" and "Star Above Parvati" to their originals. Regarding the packaging, the best feature for me were Nick's comments on source of inspiration & musical process for each of the tracks and remixes. I miss the times when artists (Cosmosis, Shpongle) did that, so I'm very grateful you bothered to do it!

[draeke]

I think you misread my comment, for me there is NO issue, NO clipping, NO compression.

I have got your point Antic, you don't like the way it sounds but I strongly disagree with your comment, I actually feel the remaster sounds WAY better than TIPCD. Period.

Let's hear what other people think, I think it's way more constructive.

[Guest antic]

I think you misread my comment, for me there is NO issue, NO clipping, NO compression.

 

No, I understand. I just don't think you're objective here as you're obviously emotionally invested.

 

I have got your point Antic, you don't like the way it sounds but I strongly disagree with your comment, I actually feel the remaster sounds WAY better than TIPCD. Period.

 

Yes, I don't like how it sounds. Because I can achieve the same loudness just turning the volume up on the original CD, without having the unwanted artifacts of compression and without boosted mids that were prominent enough.

 

Let's hear what other people think, I think it's way more constructive.

 

You have that Aussie tough guy Balance backing you up, so there's the start... The world's not just black or just white - I can love the music, be grateful for the effort and happy that I supported the label AND be disappointed by the mastering at the same time. But please, ignore further all the positive things I said about the release & focus just on the negatives.

 

That's my last post on this topic. Period.