The Hippie paradox

[Anoebis]

Because of some other threads, and also, because this was discussed on my fb not long ago... The hippie paradox! What is so terrible about the so called goa hippies! (and don't take this thread too serious ) Time to laugh with ourselves

-They love nature but want to do parties in it (and destroy it like that),
-They are against society but are on fb and have mobile phones,
-They are against kapitalism but often have a monthly welfare,
-Love nature and drive old, high fuel consumption and very polluting vans and buses (check the entrance at Boom Festival lol, gasmask advised)
-Love nature and have car engine running to listen to their own music on the parkings of parties

-They are against multinational corporations because of ethical issues, but they have no problem supporting organized crime by buying drugs.

-The love to stand out in a crowd , so they plan a summer full of events with people looking,dancing and thinking exactly the same as them

-They say they love music, but only pay money for festivals, and not for music...

-Against any kind of mega, polluting, cheap-labor-employing corps, while going at festivals featuring equipment & soundsystems & electronics made by said corps!

-Affraid of gmo and chemicals in food. Take drugs from strangers

-Some are lucky enough not to have suffered oxigen deprivation during birth, then as "adults" indulge in balloons of nitrous oxide?

-They try to escape "normality" because they can't stand "normal" people's judgemental attitudes but if you don't dress like a hippie or if you don't have rastas you're judged and label by hippies as a disordered person.

-Loves animals, but keeps them imprisoned

-calling everybody that doesn 't agree with your view a fascist

-Say they are animal loving vegans, whilst walking round looking like lost extras from a B movie production of Robin Hood wearing leather boots and all sorts of suede clothing. Oh and looking awfully superior.

-We share everything! I've got nothing, what have you got?

 

 

[Scandinasia]

That is a nice post, Mr. Vranken.

 

I'm not a hippie, and never met IRL any of them.

 

But from what I read here, I can conclude that this "way of life" seem to be corrupted by two factors :

 

1_By the poisons of our society. Capitalism. Materialism. Consumerism.

These past decades, we, as humans and citizens, have been mentally conditionned to submit to some kind of an order. People were educated not to revolt, not to ask some questions, and accustomed to perform habits that have become social standards, before becoming the very core of their lives : having a house, watching shows, eat pleasurable food. Many movements that oppose that suffocating views have been annexed : the Christians, the Communists, the Hippies, the Fascists, the Farmers, the Ravers, and now the Muslims. Every parallel form of thinking and life habit is being annexed to a mainstream culture controlled by Money.

 

2_By ego. People have strong moral principles, but they never apply it. Because in the world of today, 'acting good' is less important than 'thinking good'. This is due to an obvious lack of spiritual education and maturity. People know what is good, but they don't want to act by themselves, and become hypocrites. They haven't understood that the most driving force of change is themselves, and that in order to change this world, they have to change their heart. That can be explained by the fact that it is hard in our society to find persons who stand as models of spirituality, or as educators. But nonetheless, that is not an excuse. Either you claim those ecological/loving values and apply them, either you don't claim to be a hippie, but if one does both, he is but a hypocrite.

 

What do you think ?

[Mergi]

We have spun ourselves into a trap. To become a hippie is in text quite easy but in practice not especially easy. What is a hippie?

 

In order to get clean water from my faucet I need to go to work and pay taxes (a nifty comfort at the expense of some of my freedom). I could stop working but then I'd need to go to the river instead boil the water and then apply it. Responsibility and freedom?

 

I don't know, it's a very vast and intricate web of interactions we've built throughout time. The only freedom I'm really really fighting for is the freedom to be objective and impartial to every situation I get thrown at me, in this way I can learn and make a choice that is based on facts/logic instead of a social norm/social standard. What is normal? To me there is no such thing as normal... optimal yes normal no.

[Padmapani]

-Some are lucky enough not to have suffered oxigen deprivation during birth, then as "adults" indulge in balloons of nitrous oxide?

you don't deprive yourself of oxygen when inhaling N2O if you do it right.

 

 

-they despise anyone taking synthetic drugs, but take lsd (and nitrous oxide).

[Celaripo]

didnt meet a lot but the ones i have met while travelling - most of them i didnt like them they were not very respectful - they were stealing in supermarkets and bragging about it like we are so cool this is the way you should do it

 

and yeah there was this guy he was asking all day about a beer here - or do you have some bread i got nothing ... and this guy had a good job - i got pissed off and kindly but firmly told him that he got a job and me at this moment i had no job yet and was living on my savings - after that he never asked anything anymore - oh and my god that guy was taking one shower a week are you kidding? you could smell it and he had a girlfriend i am not sure how she could stand it haha

 

i agree there are a lot of paradoxes about these kind of people and that is probably the case with other kind of communities as well

[Starkraver]

He he he nice post Joske.

Damn them Hippies

That second picture says it all-living in their own virtual reality.

[transistor91]

What is normal? To me there is no such thing as normal... optimal yes normal no.

Normal is a term with a statistical/mathematical definition. It certainly exists.

[transistor91]

Most people are not consistent and do/say/believe hypocritical things. You've pointed some out in so-called hippies. But similar things exist in almost all people, maybe all people.

 

However, in your case, I think many of the points you've brought up are not really hypocritical, you just haven't understood them clearly enough.

 

For example, to love something is selfish and is often to use and destroy it. The change of the word "love" to something "selfless" is a recent development in our language, probably brought about by Christianity and its moral values. In a way, it's a reversal of the original meaning of "love", which is why the term can be so confusing/paradoxical to people nowadays. People turning the meaning of words on their head for their own malicious purposes.

 

Hippies tend to trust each other and only really to distrust big corporations, governments, and people who might want to harm them.

[johnb820]

When society has failed you and/or you are not allowed to participate in society in any meaningful way, it's easy to succumb to the allure of idealism. Hippies, in many ways, shapes and forms are idealists who believe in what they know is right but are often not given the opportunity to act on those beliefs. As such, they can feel extremely alienated and tend to fall in love with the aesthetic of being a hippie because that is the easiest thing to do. They seek like minded people as most do, but there is no manifestation of their ideals so as a group they tend to not produce much of substance.

 

Hippies don't really exist in the world, but rather there are various degrees of these principles. Juggalos, hipsters, various internet groups, all producing a whole lot of nothing despite their ideals of the world around them. In the worst case, they are targeted and co-opted by business interests.

[Psychedelic Alien]

Haha, so true for Belgium!

 

Another one: they hate organised religion but have a huge buddha in their room and they sing mantra's when they are stressed

[Celaripo]

the hippie paradox - peace and love

but i do wear this che guevara shirt this man who had hundreds of people killed

[Blair Thaumic]

Related: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/classic_rock_conspiracy_theory_weird_scenes_inside_the_canyon

[Lemmiwinks]

hehe nice one

 

Add to that:

- "I'm a vegetarian cause I can't stand the idea of having animals suffer and be killed for me to eat them... now pass me some fish mmmm"

or Throw your empty cups on the floor all night and then in the morning "Maaan, look at how dirty this place is!"

 

I remember reading an article a while ago that pretty much nailed the problem: basically becoming a hippie (or more generally speaking choosing a more spiritual way of life) esentially means killing your Ego, except that the Ego has a way of not letting go and coming back to haunt you. So if, say, you choose to convert to Buddhism and meditate 4 hours a day... but then spend your time bragging about it and telling everyone around you that they should do the same then you haven't really achieved anything at all cause it means that at the end of the day your Ego is still in control, maybe even moreso than before you chose the spiritual path.

[Guest The Hypnotic LFO Room]

The hippie movement and the hippies died out in the 70's. I have never met one hippie in the psytrance scene. Only people dressing like them. It kinda became a "fashion" to look like a hippie in the psytrance scene.

[Padmapani]

what's your definition of a hippie?

[Psychedelic Alien]

The Hippie movement is alive and kicking, probably even bigger as in the 60s... it is the alternative way of living, with a non conformist, ecological and often spiritual, non capitalistic view of life

[Guest The Hypnotic LFO Room]

The Hippie movement is alive and kicking, probably even bigger as in the 60s... it is the alternative way of living, with a non conformist, ecological and often spiritual, non capitalistic view of life

 

I think you confuse "Hippies" with "New Age".

[Alek]

There are people out there living very close to these "hippie ideals" in terms of non-pollution and abstaining from monetary or corporate interactions by ways of (almost) complete self-sufficiency and sustainability - usually by implementing some form of permaculture. Check out these 2 podcasts if you're interested in having a rare glimpse:

 

http://www.thepermaculturepodcast.com/2012/ethanhughes/

http://www.thepermaculturepodcast.com/2013/ethan-hughes-two/

 

They wouldn't call themselves hippies and have no desire (ego) to be exposed outside of their own communities, which is why you wouldn't hear about them or run into them unless you are on this path yourself. But this lifestyle is what most "hippies" would dream of... and would be able to attain if they dropped the drugs and put in a few years of planning and work

 

 

Now as for these "fashion hippies"... that's what they are. The pressures of injustice have morphed them into the paradox that they are. We all have different tolerance levels and response patterns. I wouldn't judge them too harshly, but I would certainly have a good laugh... after all we're all disciples of the Church of the New Age Hippie Disco Shit

[Drosophila]

Haha, so true for Belgium!

 

Another one: they hate organised religion but have a huge buddha in their room and they sing mantra's when they are stressed

Not really a contradiction... Buddhism and Hinduism are not organised religions when compared to e.g. Catholicism... it's much more locally adapted.

[Anoebis]

Not really a contradiction... Buddhism and Hinduism are not organised religions when compared to e.g. Catholicism... it's much more locally adapted.

 

As a religion teacher I do not agree at all... Buddhism has more or less the same structure as Catholicism with monks, lamas and a "boss", the Dalai Lama. The temple as central religious point and place of wisdom.

 

Christianity is VERY locally adapted. The amount of saints and the way old religions were locally adpoted is SUPER diverse in Christianity & Buddhism...

 

Its another discussion, but people in Western Countries have an unreal view on Buddhism.

[GhostOnAcid]

But the Dalai Lama is only the hightest monk in tibetian buddhism. Not in other tradition like Theravada. ;-)

[Padmapani]

 

As a religion teacher I do not agree at all... Buddhism has more or less the same structure as Catholicism with monks, lamas and a "boss", the Dalai Lama. The temple as central religious point and place of wisdom.

 

that's only true for vajrayana/tibetan buddhism (i don't know if mongolian buddhists following the vajrayana school recognise the dalai lama, i guess not?). there's no central "boss" figure for theravada or mahayana buddhism. tough you could say that it's the same with protestantism and reformed christians. i guess the difference is that catholicism is the largest christian denomination while tibetan buddhism is a small fringe group if you compare the numbers to mahayana (all buddists in china, japan and vietnam) and theravada (all other buddhists except tibet and mongolia).

 

i don't know, maybe the existence of a central figure is also part of the reason why vajrayana is so immensely popular here in europe compared to the other schools.

 

 

edit: i'm too slow. ninja'd by ghostonacid

[Drosophila]

 

As a religion teacher I do not agree at all... Buddhism has more or less the same structure as Catholicism with monks, lamas and a "boss", the Dalai Lama. The temple as central religious point and place of wisdom.

 

Christianity is VERY locally adapted. The amount of saints and the way old religions were locally adpoted is SUPER diverse in Christianity & Buddhism...

 

Its another discussion, but people in Western Countries have an unreal view on Buddhism.

Sorry, but I do not agree with your comparison... What you describe is more or less a general definition of a religious community, as I see it. That in turn will pretty much always be somewhat organized, otherwise it wouldn't be a religion... (with priest/shamans/monks e.g and specific places of worship).

 

And as pointed out The Dalai lama is not really comparable with the pope or a "boss" (for that matter), although (with China's help) he has a big following in most Buddhist communities, but that is not part of the organized religious structure... (as it certainly is for the pope).

 

And by locally adapted I mean especially in-cooperation of all kinds of per-existing gods (and the following believes) into the local version of Buddhism, even new believes like Christianity (e.g. Virgin Maria)... that will be hard to find for Christianity when compared to Buddhism, simply due to the fact that Christianity is monotheistic... (although I am sure you know some examples with your background) ...

 

so to get back to the simplistic point I was trying to make, I think it actually boils down to (insert generalization), polytheism vs monotheism ("plasticity" vs "rigidity")... might be why it appeals to hippies

[Anoebis]

Aaah, interesing discussions on psynews, love it, I hope it is not too off topic...

Anyway, there are some valid points here. The comparission between Christianity and Buddhism is impossible to make anyway because you have over 50 different churches in Christianity and over 10 different kinds of Buddhism.
But of course, the bigges forms of Christianity (Katholicism and Protestantism) can be compared to the biggest forms of Buddhism (Tibetan & theravada)

The reason why I tend to say Buddhism & Christianity is pretty much in common (and even more close to eachother as for instance Christianity & the other Abrahamitic religions) is because of the following things:

The starters of both religions was a person that was against violence, possession and was promoting a pure form of life where ascetism and helping others are central (to get a reward in the afterlife (eg, heaven or a good reïncarnation). Also, their goal was never to start a new religion, they just wanted to go deeper into the original original (eg Judaism & Hinduism)

Once they died there were followers of course. In Christianity since the 7th century with a spiritual leader (mostly because the religion was widespread and changing too hard locally) although the power of that leader became less and less which resulted in the abscence of a real leader in the orthodox church. In the Protestant Church only the bible "solo scriptorum" is the main principle. Leaders are not necessary, only philosophers.
This is pretty much the same in Buddhism, with some splits. Some with a spiritual leader (like the Dalai Lama, or the lamas in general) and some without it like theravada and mahayana

Last but not least, the "fight" and search in yourself (for God/higher power) via ascetism is common between Buddhism and Christianity. If the Franciscan order would live in Myanmar, they would be praid for all day as "perfect monks"! This has none of the other religions in the world like that.

What you say about adapting local Gods... is one of my main points of interest. The whole Christian world is FILLED with that. Saint Nicolas is nobody else as an adapted version of Wodan as an example. Christmas celebrated during Sol Invictus,... There are so many more examples like that... And yes, even today. In Brasil for instance, Candomblé is a religion where the original African Voodoo Gods are simply taken in the Christian religion. And they are honoured as saints. And you can pray for saints. So I disagree to some extent Catholicism is REALLY monotheistic, it kept the old gods, changed them to saints, and like that the "problem" was sold. In Buddhism this happens too indeed. Spirits or saints are indeed sometimes incorporated from other religions.
In protestantism, it is indeed impossible to have local gods into Christianity as they are against saints.

Ah well, I can write a book about this, just some girst thoughts

[Padmapani]

to the biggest forms of Buddhism (Tibetan & theravada)

 

 

The starters of both religions was a person that was against violence, possession and was promoting a pure form of life where ascetism and helping others are central (to get a reward in the afterlife (eg, heaven or a good reïncarnation). Also, their goal was never to start a new religion, they just wanted to go deeper into the original original (eg Judaism & Hinduism)

how is tibetan buddhism among the biggest forms?

 

mahayana: 360 million people

theravada: 150 million people

vajrayana (including tibetan buddhism, mongolian buddhists and a few sects in china and japan): 18 million people.

 

vajrayana is really only widespread in tibet and mongolia, both medium-sized regions which are extremely sparsely populated.

 

 

asceticism is not central to buddhism. buddhism propagates the middle way, rejecting both asceticism and sensual indulgence. siddharta gautama allegedly attained enlightenment after he abandoned both between the extreme asceticism of hindu sadhus and the extremely opulent life (for the time) of an indian prince.