The Psychedelic Trance, in its entirety

[Tsotsi]

@Lightforce I've only just started going through your website but its pretty amazing man, well done. The whole format is really cool, also i thought i was never going to enjoy hitek but 'Seven Strategy - Sampling Singularity' is just the first of a whole bunch of music that i'm about to discover. 

[Psyjafo]

@Lightforce Hi there! I have been following your psytrance story and compilation for some years now, great work and thank you so much for it.

You seem to be very acquainted with people of the industry, both producers, artists and DJs. Yet, this past recent years I have had trouble classifying the style and sub-style of some known names in the psytrance festival scene. 
To some degree they all seem to fall under some Full on kind of substyle due to what seems a rolling bassline, yet I see many people struggling to agree on its classification.

How can you classify the recent works of artists like (in no particular order): Ajja, Tristan, Whiptongue, Jumpstreet, Fungus Funk, Burn In Noise, Avalon, Regan, Mad Tribe, Outsiders,  Sonic Species, Dickster, Braincell, Earthspace, Earthling, Electric Universe, even Astrix... etc

I know a lot of these that I mentioned sound fundamentally different from each other, but I struggle to label them. Is Fungus Funk Forest? Where do you put Ajja and Whiptongue as well? What about Earthspace and Electric Universe for example? And Tristan, is the UK Psytrance a thing?

Some of them I've heard being called, Full On Twilight, Full On Power, some Forest, some just regular Full On, some regular Psytrance.

I would love some clarification on this. Many thanks!
Peace

[Lightforce]

@Psyjafo Hi, welcome on Psynews and thanks for your support 

First of all, about the rolling bassline it has been popularized by Full-On but most recent Psytrance productions has a rolling bassline too so it's not peculiar to Full-On. For the classification of the artists you listed I'd say :

- Ajja is usually just Psytrance on his LPs at the exception of "Spira Mirabilis" which is somewhere between Psychedelic Downtempo and Deep Trance.
- Tristan as you said it, it's UK Psytrance and I think I will end to add it in the PDF. For this one I'd suggest you to ask to @Ormion, he's a better connoisseur than me on this sub-style.
- Whiptongue, from what I can hear by now on his EP ("Oscillate") I'd say UK Psytrance too.
- Jumpstreet I'd say Hi-Tech, but a slower kind of Hi-Tech compared to what we can hear most of the time in Hi-Tech.
- Fungus Funk from his last EP, "Fractal Funk", seems to has kept a part of his "proto-Hi-Techish" Darkpsy sound on leads and FX but, not surprisignly (this EP was released on Sangoma and Timecode records after all ), has a Twilight bassline on the 2 first tracks.
- Burn in Noise, from his last album ("We Stand"), it depends on the tracks, but there's blends between these sub-styles : sometimes it's UK Psyrance, sometimes a kind of slower Hi-Tech, sometimes Full-On, and some other Progressive Psytrance and even Psychedelic Downtempo/Deep Trance.
- Avalon, from his last album ("Rise"), it's UK Psytrance most of the time but sometimes there's blends with Full-On.
- Regan just made compilations so it woud be too long to classify each tracks from different artists.
- Mad Tribe on "Superstar" : a kind of "Full-Onish" UK Psytrance.
- Outsiders on "Be As You Are" : most of the time Full-On. UK Psytrance, Progressive Psytrance or Psychedelic Downtempo on some tracks with featurings.
- Sonic Species on "Tokyo Sunrise (Transient Disorder Remix)" : "Full-Onish" UK Psytrance too.
- Dickster (when he's alone) on "Inebriatti" : UK Psytrance.
- Braincell used to be Full-On back in the days (Transformation Of Reality ), now he's UK Psytrance with some hints of Full-On on his last album, "Gaia".
- Earthspace on "Machines Reflecting Love EP" : UK Psytrance.
- Earthling on "Radio Gaia" : sometimes Full-On, sometimes UK Psytrance.
- Electric Universe on "Lakshmi" like on his last LP "Journeys Into Outer Space" : Full-On.
- Astrix on "He.Art" : "Full-Onish" Progressive Psytrance.

I might be wrong but I think there's nothing Forest in the artists you listed 

[Ormion]

3 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

Can someone point me to some essential Twillight music? Which really has defined the style. I wanna know how the bassline sounds etc. I don't think I've heard this style yet. Perhaps somewhat on Psysex-2020 album? Because I remember thinking it had some "Dark Psy" elements, but was told it was Twillight elements or something to that effect. I'm a bit out of the loop nowadays with regards to todays Psy Trance scene/Subgenres, I did listen more to Psy/Dark Psy/Prog and some South African psy etc around 2008 or so.

Azax Syndrom, Khopat, Sidhartha, Tryambaka, Phatmatix, Seroxat, Killer Buds. All of them are classic examples of Twilight.

[Ormion]

4 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

So I went to an outdoors party tonight, and I'm a bit perplexed with regards to the styles they played. Is this Twillight or Dark-Psy? Or are the two terms interchangeable?

 https://streamable.com/vf6xxp

https://streamable.com/lcqin

Track-ID if possible

That sounds like UK Psytrance. But UK Psytrance is already somewhere between twilight and darkpsy so I wouldn't sweat too much about it.

I made a YouTube playlist couple of years ago, I hope it helps.

 

[thefreewave]

On 7/31/2020 at 4:08 PM, Ormion said:

Azax Syndrom, Khopat, Sidhartha, Tryambaka, Phatmatix, Seroxat, Killer Buds. All of them are classic examples of Twilight.

I'm a bit mystified here. I know Ormion has been very outspoken on what great Twilight is in all his posts on this forum but yet his recommendations aren't matched by what is on the pdf but they seem a little closer to the psytranceguide stub.....As a newcomer its hard to know what to go by when people are given very different answers by 3 experts......

I've copied over the pdf recommendations into a chronological list (s.african on second half, do most people separate them or lump them together?)  https://www.discogs.com/lists/Twilight-Psytrance/603302 and all the source links i found so far....

[Lightforce]

7 hours ago, thefreewave said:

I'm a bit mystified here. I know Ormion has been very outspoken on what great Twilight is in all his posts on this forum but yet his recommendations aren't matched by what is on the pdf but they seem a little closer to the psytranceguide stub.....As a newcomer its hard to know what to go by when people are given very different answers by 3 experts......

I've copied over the pdf recommendations into a chronological list (s.african on second half, do most people separate them or lump them together?)  https://www.discogs.com/lists/Twilight-Psytrance/603302 and all the source links i found so far....

I think Ormion just gave classic Twilight Psytrance productions, all kind of Twilight confonded, not only those who fits in the South African one. I don't see anything contradictory with what is put in the pdf 

[Ormion]

19 hours ago, thefreewave said:

I'm a bit mystified here. I know Ormion has been very outspoken on what great Twilight is in all his posts on this forum but yet his recommendations aren't matched by what is on the pdf but they seem a little closer to the psytranceguide stub.....As a newcomer its hard to know what to go by when people are given very different answers by 3 experts......

I've copied over the pdf recommendations into a chronological list (s.african on second half, do most people separate them or lump them together?)  https://www.discogs.com/lists/Twilight-Psytrance/603302 and all the source links i found so far....

Twilight is basically harder, fatter, more aggressive full on. You can have many different sounds in the twilight subgenre. For example Sidhartha or Tryon are more fat, meanwhile Seroxat or Azax Syndrom are like harder israeli full on. 

I didn't mention any South African artists because they have their own unique sound even though they're technically twilight (in fact the term twilight has been coined by South African artists).

[thefreewave]

Sorry that discogs list was private instead of public. changed. Catching up on thread now.

[thefreewave]

10 hours ago, Lightforce said:

I think Ormion just gave classic Twilight Psytrance productions, all kind of Twilight confonded, not only those who fits in the South African one. I don't see anything contradictory with what is put in the pdf 

 

PsyTrance Guide
Night Full-on Also known as: Twilight, South African Full-on
BPM range: 145-150

Night Full-on is the evil twin of Full-on: it has the same fast-paced bass and leads but with a darker vibe and twisted, synthetic sounds. On the festivals, Twilight Psy typically sound during the night-time, hence the name.

Note: probably, Night Full-on and Twilight will be separated is the future version of this guide. Please read more in the blog.????

Examples:
CPU — Processing Unit (Original Mix)
Azax Syndrom — Flawless Victory (Original Mix)
Alienn — Goodfellas (Original Mix)
Absolum & Outer Signal — Get Up Now (Original Mix)

Notable artists:

Absolum, (on pdf)
Brainwash, (not on pdf)
CPU, (not on pdf)
Ex-Gen, (not on pdf)
Outer Signal, (not on pdf)
Scorb, (not on pdf)
Pitch Hikers, (on pdf)
Shift, (not on pdf, on a few of the comps)
Stereopanic (not on pdf)
Notable labels: Nexus Media, 3D Vision, Hypergate Records, Lysergic Records, Nutek Records, Mechanik Records

Ormion Recommendations:"
Azax Syndrom, (not on pdf)
Khopat, (not on pdf)
Sidhartha, (on pdf)
Tryambaka, (on pdf)
Phatmatix, (on pdf)
Seroxat, (not on pdf)
Killer Buds. (not on pdf)
All of them are classic examples of Twilight."

Check also albums by
Tryon, (not on pdf)
Wizack Twizack, (not on pdf)
Dark Nebula. (not on pdf)

I guess this itemizes what IS and isn't on the pdf. again 3 different sources showing off differing recommendations. Hence the confusion on what to go by......

[Lightforce]

@thefreewave Ormion just gave examples of Twilight classics. My PDF is not about giving classics but about giving examples of albums for each sub-styles after having explained each of them. I could perfectly have included his examples in the Twilight pages 

P.S.: about the list on discogs, although Wild by Absolum is undoubtedly a "proto-Twilight" album, it rather fits in Psytrance category (the one I described in the PDF) 

[thefreewave]

On 8/11/2020 at 1:43 PM, Lightforce said:

@thefreewave Ormion just gave examples of Twilight classics. My PDF is not about giving classics but about giving examples of albums for each sub-styles after having explained each of them. I could perfectly have included his examples in the Twilight pages 

P.S.: about the list on discogs, although Wild by Absolum is undoubtedly a "proto-Twilight" album, it rather fits in Psytrance category (the one I described in the PDF) 

ahhh ok. yeah i was hoping the pdf covered the essential artists and albums for each style, not just "examples" of some. Makes it harder to understand the genre when its different artists, albums, and criteria on the different sites to check out or the essentials / classics are skipped over. Thanks for explaining that though.

[Psyjafo]

On 8/11/2020 at 8:25 PM, AstralSphinx said:

I'm listening to those artists now on youtube and spotify for the first time except if there's some overlap with the tracks on Ormions youtube examples of the style, anyone has good playlist on spotify?

What I've found so far that I really like are these  DJ-mixes:

First two are Dark Psy/Twilight

and one with Dark Forest stuff:

 

But the thing is, the first compilation of these videos you share, from what is on the Guide plus the feedback from @Lightforceand @Ormion, do not seem to fit in neither Darkpsy or Twilight. 

So how do you classify that kind of sound? (Filterheads, DIksha, Earthspace, Ingrained Instincts, Chirs RIch, Hydra-E, etc..). It has Twilight bassline, a mixture of Dark vibe and Forest swarming FX, very psychedelic...

[thefreewave]

On 9/28/2020 at 11:44 AM, Psyjafo said:

But the thing is, the first compilation of these videos you share, from what is on the Guide plus the feedback from @Lightforceand @Ormion, do not seem to fit in neither Darkpsy or Twilight. 

So how do you classify that kind of sound? (Filterheads, DIksha, Earthspace, Ingrained Instincts, Chirs RIch, Hydra-E, etc..). It has Twilight bassline, a mixture of Dark vibe and Forest swarming FX, very psychedelic...

I think that's one of the issues is that when you look at modern mixes of psytrance with newer releases is they are a mix of several of the subgenres (even listing several in the titles), they're new or small artists that aren't necessary to know or don't fit into the history, and they're not designed to really do any history lessons. That's where going over classics and the history part is essential in at least showing where it came from to those who care. Youtube mixes and spotify playlists will almost always be just updated modern versions, mixing several subgenre sounds from where they started, and often ignoring any origins of the subgenres. It's frankly hard to find any "classic" subgenre playlists....

[Multi-Media]

Here are a lot of experts... I have an OT question...

"Techno contest" in another forum (one is from me):

https://recording.de/threads/techno-contest-das-voting.234894/

Can you guys listen to track no. 11. "Tresor" it sounds totally familiar to me, NOT saying the artist has stolen something ... and yes it is bit psytrance-like not 100% techno imho.

..but I need to know if I am the only one who knows a quite simmilar track from the broader "psy" genre..THANKS.

 

[thefreewave]

sorry can't help you there and a little off-topic... Hopefully he didn't borrow a riff or two from the Tresor label back catalog by naming it that, lol

[death0serpent]

Heyo, I am so happy to have found this, is there any chance to see a somewhat updated version nowadays or at least the original. Would be very happy to learn more about psy <3

[Lightforce]

Hi, I'll try to update it some day but I'm very busy with my studies right now 

[Nanosotfr]

Hi Everyone,

I checked a bit your forum and ran into it mostly searching for accuracy about certain Psychedelic Trance styles.

I’m also passionate about electronic music in general (other stuff too but I’m a 95% electronic music lover anyway ) and also love to be as accurate as possible when dealing with music genres and styles. I’m not into the psychosis and fight with others about any conception of music styles but for my own pleasure I really like to seek for accuracy and love to classify my music collection  and understand all of the shape and feel of (electronic) music. I still see electronic music or music in general as a big evolutive canvas. Anyway that’s just frequencies and sounds which are blending together perpetually.

I got the link to a post on discogs looking for some accuracy about Twilight Psy Trance.

I started listening to electronic music twenty years ago, with Trance, Psy Trance, Makina, Happy Hardcore, Gabber, Dance, Euro Dance, Californian Punk Rock for the main part (I was and still am very eclectic) . At the time I was very young and for most of them I did not even know what type of electronic music it was.

Then, I guess as many people here, I spent so much time on the Ishkur guide back then and it was a basis for how I categorize music at the time. I think I can say that I know by heart every samples on this website and still love how it was designed. Very clear and entertaining.

Though, after years, many researches and more experience, I found it sometimes weird on some points but I guess this one wasn’t totally objective. But I can still say that I think most of it was close to accuracy for lots of music styles.

The third version seems to go in the same direction.

I also checked the website of Daniel Lesden about Psy Trance and find it also very clear and concise. And also your guide that I found few years ago on the Internet and just find out a few days ago that it was from your website.

I find it very good too even if sometimes I could see things a bit differently but that could be a further discussion.

But now I’m still questioning myself about mostly a certain type of Psy Trance. And can’t really find out the solution. Maybe that’s because this style is still like a hybrid version of others styles but is not precisely defined.

————————————————————————

For a better understanding here’s some information about how it started.

I would say that this questioning started around 2012, and the listening of music from Ektoplasm and also the discovery of Ajja’s album Tulpa.

For instance Isochronic and Nomad 25 were the style I loved to play in parties and on Ektoplasm it was labelled as Twilight and Full On. I find it also close to the sound of Ajja with tunes like Bebopper which was at the time for me a fresh sound I liked so much. I think we can say that Ajja’s sound was kind of the beginning of UK Psy Trance/Uptempo Psy Trance back then or maybe this new sound I can’t really classify?

2012 - Isochronic - Section 6 EP findable on Ektoplasm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05N59bUp2kE

To me it seems to be a kind of evolution of the twilight sound but it seems like the emphasis is more on the bassline and less the agressive /harsh synth lead sounds that was the signature of Twilight and Night Full On. Still, I’m still hesitating on the question of a Twilight and Night Full On styles separated or not.

2012 - Isochronic - Fat Data

2012 - Ajja - Tulpa

Bazinga - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VhokOvIUKQ

Isochronic seems to go a bit further than Ajja’s on his album but I can see the similarities.

I can’t really say that it matches what is the Uptempo/UK sound from today so….

To me, the translation of what I hear, not with any definitions of the word, but for what I know from experience was : something with a very present and driving bassline, speed and some dark and forest FX elements/sounds. Again more emphasis on the rolling and driving bassline.

Was it what the Twilight sound was in 2012? But when I compared with what I know it seems that the Twilight or Night Full On sound and SA Twilight sound were a bit different.

I think maybe they started to remove the too much of Full On melodies and screaming/tearing feel synth leads to concentrate of the grooviness and driving basslines. On certain tracks I can still feel the Night Full On elements but was it still an evolution of Night Full On/ Twilight or something that could be a different style going to the Dark side (Dark Psy Trance) but staying before the limits of Dark.

Something between Night Full On/Twilight and Dark Psy Trance or is it just somehow only considered as Darkpsy? But to me honestly I can’t really accept that as a Darkpsy track.

I also saw this comment in 2015 for this release (Isochronic) saying « This is what Twilight SHOULD sound like….     …. Golden find « 

So a doubt could be there anyway with what is exactly the definition of Twilight?

Here a few examples :

2012 - Beardy Weardy - Eggman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRlzRbLEdgE

2014 - Drip Drop - Drip Drop (Album)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_CZkxr5Dik

2012 - Mole - Chemical Key

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5iDYz0P0DY

I could add that I found an old release from R.A.M in the album Efficient Chips : Coming back in 2004 that to me looks like a prototype of this kind of music. I mean, even if this one seems to be darker at least for the rhythmic section. I hear a difference (not everywhere in the track) when again the Night Full On elements are quieter and a track more focused on the bassline grooviness. So closer to what the sound is in 2012.

2004 - RAM - Coming Back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bzNzOK7Ns8

The question wasn’t answered for years and I assumed that it was the Twilight sound from 2010/2012 but the doubt was still a bit there. Was I playing Night Full On, Twilight, Dark Psy Trance, Forest? I’m still hesitating.

Today the question still rise with the addition of UK Psy Trance, Uptempo Psy Trance as it was labelled by Lesden on his website or heard for a few years now.

I think I saw some of you saying that it could be Uk Psy Trance.

So the first question is : Is Uptempo Psy Trance and UK Psy Trance the same thing?

Because to me I would like to think that Uptempo Psy Trance fits really well with this fast driving Psy Trance with big leads from artists like Mad Tribe, Djantrix, Inner Lux, Alienatic to name a few. So Lesden definition could be accurate.

And second question, the same from the start, can we define this style as Uptempo/UK Psy Trance?

I also read Ormion talking about an unnamed style referred as Doof Style by him that could match what I am talking about.

Example from today, I mean more recent tracks : (I assume and of course can hear the different elements from other styles but still I could add those in the same style evolution threw the years)

2015 - Dragonbboyz - Psychedelic Sweets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Prwk5QPtFc

2017 - Critter & Oksha - Digital Birds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrH0w4YgvoQ

2020 - Shenanigan - Wonky Business

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zc2IPNcAFw

2020 - Gabb - Ayahuasca Therapy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6FL7itAQxE

I give this one but clearly the difference is there but wanted to add an example of maybe a new direction with now the fusion of UK Psy from today with Twilight.

2022 - Nomad Alien - Get a new rule (Again are we at the frontier of Twilight/Dark/Forest and UK Psy Trance/Uptempo Psy Trance ?) Because this one seems to be only UK Psy but on the other hand there’s this dark feeling and sounds lurking in the track.

————————————————

I know that’s also difficult to make boundaries as for some of the tracks we can obviously feel the more or less Dark elements or elements from other styles. It’s exactly what music is. A big blending of elements disappearing and coming back again with variations.

But still I can feel the evolution of this 2012 sound. Maybe earlier, I could search for earlier work but for now to me the marker was Ajja’s Tulpa album in 2012 even with the track from R.A.M. and the similarities with that style.

Anyway I think the best thing to do would be to say for instance this is 70% Psy Trance,18% Forest, 10% Techno, 2% whatever and then we could define what is a style or a genre. But yes first we need to get common boundaries (sound ? Instruments? Frequencies? Tones? etc… and then will we be better at it than a computer?

Maybe one day an IA could give the « ingredients » its « composition »,  of a track like we are able to define the composition of any material or food and we’ll see the « real » composition of music

But that’s for now not how it works. I guess AIs has more important things to do now :D:D

Thanks for reading and thanks for your help

Nano

 

[Tsotsi]

@Lightforce Yooo wassup with the encyclopedia? I'm trying to get on but am coming across a "server not found" message? PM if you'd rather answer privately for wateva reason. Or is it just me that can't get on?

[Lightforce]

Hi, yeah it's normal, I had to stop it. I don't have enough time to work on it anymore for now.
Maybe later, after my studies.

[Tsotsi]

18 hours ago, Lightforce said:

Hi, yeah it's normal, I had to stop it. I don't have enough time to work on it anymore for now.
Maybe later, after my studies.

Does it require work if you just leave it online but don't make changes?

What are the server costs?

[Lightforce]

3 hours ago, Tsotsi said:

Does it require work if you just leave it online but don't make changes?

What are the server costs?

Well, since it's not even finished and up to date it's not worthy yet and just a waste of money to keep the server.
Just stick to the pdf for now 

[RoOm604]

On 6/18/2022 at 2:53 PM, Lightforce said:

Well, since it's not even finished and up to date it's not worthy yet and just a waste of money to keep the server.
Just stick to the pdf for now 

Hello from me a new comer  Is your PDF still available for download anywhere? 

[RTP]

9 hours ago, RoOm604 said:

Hello from me a new comer  Is your PDF still available for download anywhere? 

Yes, here are the links from @Lightforce's first post, they are still active:

Here is the link for the English version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hr2pdwhonek82o/Psytrance (EN).pdf?dl=0
Here is the link for the (original) French version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q84tbn46xrmmgji/Psytrance.pdf?dl=0