Anoebis Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Well, the trend this summer was VERY clear. One of the reasons why cd dies is certainly because I didn't see ANY dj play with Vinyls/Cds anymore... On ZNA I only saw 1 dj play with CDJ's (even on an old school festival?) on Lost Theory I and the other Belgians were the only djs playing with CDJ's... So, the time is there I guess, Lap Top took over. This isn't necessarely a bad thing, but I will be honest. I never even SAW a lap top mixing, I know NOTHING about it. So I was wondering...1.) is there a way to see if the dj is REALLY mixing or just uses the SYNC button?2.) if he IS mixing on a lap top, how does he actually do that if there is no SYNC button? (yes, newbie question) 3.) does it have the same charm for the public when a dj plays from a lap top or they dont care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Hypnotic LFO Room Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Jean Borelli and I certainly Beat-mixed for real on ZNA using a laptop and the DJ program "Flow" (made my MIxedinkey). It's actually not that complicated. It's exactly like beatmixing with CD's. The only difference is that the BPM is already found (on most modern DJ Mixers you see the BPM too).The great thing is you now have the ability to loop and remix tunes (If that is ones thing to do) while DJ'ng. It gives you the ability to play around more. I use a controller connected to the laptop that work just as a DJ mixer would (with all the sliders and knobs). It control the software so I do not really have to use a mouse...So the DJ experience is 100% as if you used CD's.I do not see any difference if you look down on a screen on a set of CD players or into a computer screen and I doubt the experience is less good on the floor. We have had tons of amazing feedback from our 4 hour DJ set at ZNA PS! I have not yet seen any DJ software where you just press the button. No software can beat-mix tunes automatic (as far as I know)... There is also quite a lot of preparation of tunes before you use them in the software. Such as adding perfect cues in advance etc... I even re-master ever tune I use play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 1.) is there a way to see if the dj is REALLY mixing or just uses the SYNC button? Why do you care? Sure, anyone can beatmatch 2 tracks with the sync button but it still takes some skills to actually mix something coherent. 2.) if he IS mixing on a lap top, how does he actually do that if there is no SYNC button? (yes, newbie question) If someone's mixing on CDs or Vinyls, how does he actually do that if there's no sync button? 3.) does it have the same charm for the public when a dj plays from a lap top or they dont care? I don't see how what equipment is used has anything to do with it (as long as you're actually doing something instead of pressing play on a perfectly executed pre-mixed set). A laptop and a sync button doesn't magically transform you into a number one DJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 And just to expand a bit: I use a shitty cheap HP laptop from 2008 with Windows XP (handy for carrying your entire music collection with you, I've needed to change the hard drive a few times to fit all my music), djDecks 0.99 with a custom skin tailored by myself to my needs (it doesn't have a sync button per se, it has tempo detection and matching that works almost always), a custom mapped 1st edition Korg Nanokontrol MIDI controller with a few slightly wonky buttons (the all-important play-buttons for example...) and a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 audio interface with 2 stereo outputs (yes, I need a traditional DJ mixer to actually mix my sets). I haven't had anyone complaining about this, just get the occasional weird look and question "what's that software you're using?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 Interesting... (and no, no plans to change to lap top )Kristian, you still have to use the pitch control? Or it is also set automatically while using the program? As for the feedback of the crowd, unfortunately 95% of the people don't care about being "real" or not I know that anyone would be more popular when having a dancing monkey on the shoulder then doing a good transition after sweating with some weird songs... To paul, 1.) because I hear often on parties people say "the guy can't mix, luckely the computer can" so I am wondering if it truely exists About 2.) well, the point is indeed what Kristian answered... Without a mouse it makes sense if you have a controller, but with a mouse it seems awfully hard to me... 3.) well, of course... I'm just wondering, with a laptop, would you have the same amount of "contact" with the people? Also, do people care about the "art" of mixing or not at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blair Thaumic Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Another option, like Paul Eye said, is to select external mode and just mix using the mixer as usual. So the program is just there to cue up and adjust the pitch of tracks. That's my preference. I don't do any digital 'tricks' when I mix, and I didn't like the loss of nuance and gradualism when I played on a MIDI controller. A better DJ could probably compensate for it, and run circles around me technique wise, but I'm more comfortable manipulating the sound with analog controls. Using Sync is OK but I like transitions with some tension/imperfection, so I rarely bother with it. Also, unless I'm wrong, it seems to me that if you aren't hitting Play *exactly* when two beats match up it's going to be off even with Sync, so it's better to use your own sense of rhythm when mixing in a track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I do not see any difference if you look down on a screen on a set of CD players or into a computer screen This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 This. True, sounds logic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Arts Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 CDs for me. You get to play in some very dusty places, especially in Goa which are "unhealthy" for a computer. I prefer not having a screen between the crowd and my self. I prefer to not look at a screen in order to do something so simple. Less stuff to carry/no setting up needed. If my shit gets stolen or I get too messed up and just leave the party without remembering to get my shit, it'll only cost me a pair of headphones. I like to novelty vibe of it, people DJ with a pair of CDJs and a mixer for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djuna Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Nowadays the only way to tell if someone is mixing on the spot or just playing a (premixed) playlist, is when (s)he is playing with vinyl or CD's. But even with CD's I saw some DJ's never setting a que point or changing discs, which is a bit suspicious... So I guess the only way to be sure is that they play vinyl. Anyway, what's maybe more important to ask is this: do laptops help to create better DJ-sets and musical experiences, or not? Until now no DJ could convince me of that. By the way, for the mixing fans, here is Carl Cox playing a psy/techno set with 3 decks.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKMG_hZeGMA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trunksan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 A lot of of times the laptop just works as a hard drive and all the mixing gets done via CD decks/mixer so in a way the only thing that changes is that you don't have to put in and take out the CDs. Where, I think, the laptop helps, is that you have the graphic analysis of the track so you can more easily see where there are intros, pauses, peeks etc. Obviously there are a lot of features that software have, that help you manipulate a track but it's not convenient AT ALL unless you have external controllers. Since I'm in the pro audio/pro lighting/live concert business, most people ask for the Pioneer CDJ400 and not the newer CD players, that's because it has proven to be the deck that has the least compatibility problems with sound cards, operating systems and software. So they can hook it up at a computer and use it with no problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Anyway, what's maybe more important to ask is this: do laptops help to create better DJ-sets and musical experiences, or not? Until now no DJ could convince me of that. Completely irrelevant. A good DJ knows what he's doing regardless of the equipment he uses. Some people mix like shit on laptop+controller, some people mix like shit on CDs, some people mix like shit on vinyl, some people mix like shit on tapes. Some people mix well on any of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Sunray Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 3.) well, of course... I'm just wondering, with a laptop, would you have the same amount of "contact" with the people? Also, do people care about the "art" of mixing or not at all... I have actually never understood why a laptop should remove any kind of 'conact' with the people, compared to CDs. If you talk about a pre-recorded set that is just started with simple PLAY-button hit, than you actually lose it, but this related to the mixing-style of the DJ, not the technology. I mean, you can also just burn that pre-recorded set into CD and push play-button on the CD player. You work with CD, but still don't do anything on stage other than dummy-mixing on the knobs of the unused channels. Same is valid vice versa. You can just load a ton of files onto your USB stick, don't prepare any CUE-points upfront and don't use the sync-button but the pitch slider. Then you are basically at vinly-level-mixing-style, but using a laptop to play the files. You can prepare a set on laptop so that it automatically plays for hours with a single button hit. Or can also decide to not prepare anything upfront, but search/set the CUEs on stage and use the pitch to sync, instead of the sync button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopie Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 If someone's mixing on CDs or Vinyls, how does he actually do that if there's no sync button? I'm not sure I understood correctly but there's no sync button, not that I've used. You search for the cue point and rewind/forward the next track on the other deck to get them sync - manually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djuna Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Completely irrelevant. A good DJ knows what he's doing regardless of the equipment he uses. Some people mix like shit on laptop+controller, some people mix like shit on CDs, some people mix like shit on vinyl, some people mix like shit on tapes. Some people mix well on any of these. True, but you kinda miss my point. Did the ability to mix on laptop create new and interesting ways to mix? Maybe, but I still haven't met a DJ who did something different. And a side-effect to worry about is that standards are lowered: anyone with a laptop can start, some with pirated software play mp3's and music downloaded from youtube; the aspect of searching for a certain release and mastering a certain skill disappears. Regarding contact with the crowd: I don't think it has to do with the gear being used... And overall I think people should be more in contact with the music, not the person on the stage. But that's an other discussion. ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Seems my sarcasm didn't go through that well (edit: that was in response to Oopie's post) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 True, but you kinda miss my point. Did the ability to mix on laptop create new and interesting ways to mix? Maybe, but I still haven't met a DJ who did something different. Why should it by definition create new ways to mix? It's just another tool to get the job done. Did the coming of CDJ:s create new ways to mix as opposed to vinyl? Yes, it's an honest question as I don't know. And a side-effect to worry about is that standards are lowered: anyone with a laptop can start, some with pirated software play mp3's and music downloaded from youtube; the aspect of searching for a certain release and mastering a certain skill disappears. Well, ever since the internet came along you could download shitty mp3s and burn them to CDs and play those. OK, so you needed to buy some gear and blank CDs to actually play and mix them (not that you wouldn't need to buy at least a laptop nowadays to do the same thing). And anyone who plays pirated music and/or uses pirated software to play his gigs is an asshole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Sunray Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 True, but you kinda miss my point. Did the ability to mix on laptop create new and interesting ways to mix? Maybe, but I still haven't met a DJ who did something different. huh? This is just completely different to how you do a set with CDs or vinyl. He doesn't care at all about sync button or pitch slider. Actually he is not even do "mixing", but he is layering clips. Gives you whole bunch of new possibilities - here it's not really about mixing two tracks, but cutting tracks onto tons of small clips and play those clips live on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Sunray Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Why should it by definition create new ways to mix? It's just another tool to get the job done. Did the coming of CDJ:s create new ways to mix as opposed to vinyl? Yes, it's an honest question as I don't know. Yeah it did. Doing "loop-mix" was quite difficult, to impossible on vinyl (here you basically play a part of track B in a loop, mix it onto A and as soon as fade is on B, you exit the loop and keep B running). "Jump mix" (no idea what's the name for this) - here you don't wanna mix B onto A, at end of A, but you want to mix in a certain part of A, while still playing the whole the track. So you the loop / jump / seek / resample / whatever feature of your CD player so that you can jump from end-of-A to mix-part-of-A, where you fade B into. + a couple of more techniques that come along with the fact that CD players can do looping / seeking / resampling way better than a vinyl player (where you would end with 4+ players to achieve the same like 2 CDs players). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Hypnotic LFO Room Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Kristian, you still have to use the pitch control? Or it is also set automatically while using the program? The cool thing is that the software does not change the pitch of a tune when changing bpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djuna Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 @LFO my Reloop mixer can keep the same pitch as well. This is just completely different to how you do a set with CDs or vinyl. He doesn't care at all about sync button or pitch slider. Actually he is not even do "mixing", but he is layering clips. Gives you whole bunch of new possibilities - here it's not really about mixing two tracks, but cutting tracks onto tons of small clips and play those clips live on stage. That's a live set, not a DJ set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Sunray Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 @LFO my Reloop mixer can keep the same pitch as well. That's a live set, not a DJ set. Depends on how you define liveset If 'live' on the liveset is because files are played with Ablton Live, than you are right. For me 'live' means that he is playing his own sound. Playing tracks of other artists is DJ'ing for me, also if the name of player is Ablton "Live". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Hypnotic LFO Room Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I never understood the debate about what's "right or wrong" regarding DJ'ing.I seriously do not care what people use to DJ with. A good DJ is a good DJ no matter the equipment. I have heard Train-wreck DJ's on Turntables, on CD players and on Computers... Only purists think their equipment is the best and the rest are "fake". It's all about the story the DJ bring to the dance floor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technosomy Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 very interesting... while some people use cdj and laptops here in australia alot are using vinyl.. i predict more will follow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Sunray Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 very interesting... while some people use cdj and laptops here in australia alot are using vinyl.. i predict more will follow huh? so what kind of sound do they play in australia? I couldn't even use vinyl if I wanted to, simply because nobody of my favorite artists & labels releases on vinyl. Most don't even do CD releases anymore, but distributed it online only. Not event thinking about all the unreleased stuff or home-brew production tracks, no way to get this stuff on vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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