Psytrance 16ths bassline VST & synth shootout:

[Taika-Kim]

 

These ones on the line of fire:
Camel Audio Alchemy
Studio Electronics 4075
U-He Diva
Synapse Audio Dune
Image Line Harmor
D16 Group Lush 101
Stillwell Audio Olga
Roland SH2 VST
SammichSID with mono output of one 8580SID
Lennar Digital Sylenth1
Togu Audioline Noisemaker
Togu Audioline Bassline 101
U-He Ace
U-He Bazille beta
U-He Zebra 2
U-He Hive
U-He Tyrrell N6
Steinberg VB1

Funny, actually in the mix I like the sound of the SID chip almost the best As expected, Sylenth1 was very good... A free option that's very close in sound is Synapse Audio Dune.
The free TAL Noisemaker is very close to my analog hardware, I would say even more than U-He Diva. Harmor has super good envelopes, very nice for high BPMs.

[astralprojection]

kinda wierd thread but im into it.

but there is no point to it because one could probably make all of these sounds using something like Zebra, Sylenth or Alchemy alone.

Those three being really different from eachother, but still could produce the same results.

Alchemy is old now btw, I dont think it even officially exists anymore (i.e you cannot buy it) but it was one hell of a synth. Amazing actually. the best sample based synth ive came across, way better than for example Omnisphere, or NI Massive or a bunch of other multi-gigabyte synths.

 

Sylenth1, which is amazingly small, is my favorite synth without a doubt. I cannot understand how something so small can sound so big.

 

Vanguard is also a really good one but unfortunately, I have NO idea how to work it. I mean really, no idea.

Reasons Subtractor - is for me perfectly logical, but Vanguard seems to be a samplebased synth - but its not, but I have NO idea how to actually use it, and it is very very hard (at least for me) to get into, unfortunately.

But lucky for me, there are millions of presets to download for free so Im cool with that

 

But I do like to create a sound from scratch, and the best luck Ive had with that is actually with the Reasons Subtractor. I dunno, it just makes sense to me.

Sylenth1 is also something I really have no clue how it works.

 

It is sample based? no its not... but How do you create a sound with it? How can a preset sound like a kick, and another preset sound like the Blade 303 loop?

Obviously I somewhat know the answers to these questions already but it it still amazing how Vanguard and Sylenth1 can be so extremely versatile, and I dont have a freaking clue how to make a sound from scratch with them.

 

Alchemy was wonderful because it was sample based. You had your sample, and you could tweak it into oblivion if you so chose.

Also, The FM8 synth, is a cool piece of software. Really really reminds me of reasons subtractor and also makes alot of sense.

When creating sounds from scratch, that is.

 

Another sample based synth who I wouldnt even classify as a synth is Omnisphere and Atmosphere, but Atmosphere is redundant now i think and has been replaces with Omnisphere.

I have NO clue how that works.

I know its sample based because of the huuge gigabyte patches, but i also know it has waveforms that you can create sounds with from scratch.

So it is a sampler? Is it a synth?

 

 

The whole VSTi market is so consfusing for me, and daunting, which really keeps me using just basically Subtractor, Sylenth1 and Vanguard.

Even if I cant understand how Sylenth1 and Vanguard works, I at least can wrap my mind around them, and there are so many thousands of presets and its quite easy to tweak each preset to your liking so that way they are great.

 

But yeah, the whole VSTi market, is like, quantum mechanics to me. and I use them almost 3-4 times a week over 13 years now!

and the only piece of equipment I really know how it works, is Reasons Subtractor.

 

everything inside that synth makes sense, every knob makes sense, and every result makes sense.

Yes it is extremely limited so you cant use it for very much, but at least I understand it.

[Taika-Kim]

I think the comparison was quite interesting, because even though you can of course create this basic patch with any synth, the differences

are huge between different synths.

 

Alchemy is not dead, version 2.0 just came out with 3000 new sounds. It´s only for Mac though sadly, but then again it´s a free

update for LogicX users.

 

It´s my favourite synth, the architecture is just brilliant.

 

It can play samples, true, but most patches actually apply some form of resynthesis, where the sound is rebuilt from sinewave

partials from example, allowing all kinds of interesting things to be made.

 

What do you mean "so small" about Sylenth1? It does not need a lot of sample data, and code does not take much space?

 

The limit between sample based/ not sample based is not simple like that. Many VA synths actually use precalculated waveform lookup

tables anyway, so they could be said to be wavetable synths in fact. About the very latest "circuit modelling" based ones I don´t

know though, if they really have a mathematical realtime circuit model of the oscillator running realtime the whole time.

 

I also don´t quite understand your comment about Sylenth sounds? It has exactly the same artchitecture like any other analogfu modelling

synth, so the sound programming is the same than any other synth? Read the manuals, they help to understand how the different

sounds are produced. A kick sound usually for example is just one wave (or filter with high resonance, creating a sinewave) modulated

with a steep pitch envelope, and the sequences come from an arpeggiator running. An arpeggiator is a part inside the synth that

creates note sequences without the need to send notes in the synth from the sequencer.

 

Omnisphere is a sampler, but it has also oscillators you can use in addition with the samples. And these too are sample based for

almost sure.

[jivamukti]

These ones on the line of fire:

 

<snip>

 

Funny, actually in the mix I like the sound of the SID chip almost the best As expected, Sylenth1 was very good... A free option that's very close in sound is Synapse Audio Dune.

The free TAL Noisemaker is very close to my analog hardware, I would say even more than U-He Diva. Harmor has super good envelopes, very nice for high BPMs.

Presumably you eq'd the mix versions because I didn't hear the boominess that was present in some of the kick + bass ones?

 

Wow Harmor sounds great, really tight envelopes and clean sound. Definitely one to inspect closer.

 

Olga OTOH sounds thin and limp, ugh.

 

I've never liked Zebra 2 for rolling psy bass. There's some kind of unpleasant instability in the attack of the enveloped filter that I can't get rid of. It just doesn't sound as good and tight as the best options.

 

Speaking of which there are some great ones not in your test. The most obvious is Trilian, fat and flexible with adjustable envelope curves. FilterscapeVA, while no good for wet acid sounds because of the digital character of the filter, produces one of the best psy basses IMO. The filter envelope is super stable and its concavity is just right. CronoX2 is good too - another one where they got the envelope just right - but it doesn't have the analog fidelity of say Sylenth1.

 

Summa summarum if you want to make a psy bass with the least effort, use Sylenth1.

[Taika-Kim]

Well obviously I didn´t test everything. Originally I was just auditing a few synths for a tune I was making, mentioned that in some discussion and somebody asked me to post the results. And of course I had to add a few ones Trilian, I don´t think there's a demo? OTOH Omnisphere´s filters are quite bad IMO, I would expect Trilian to have the same ones?

 

In the mixed ones there is a lowpass filter at around 30hz IIRC, and that actually has a huge effect on the synths, depending on the rolloff. But still some synths sound better than others, even with the same settings

[astralprojection]

I think the comparison was quite interesting, because even though you can of course create this basic patch with any synth, the differences

are huge between different synths.

 

Alchemy is not dead, version 2.0 just came out with 3000 new sounds. It´s only for Mac though sadly, but then again it´s a free

update for LogicX users.

 

It´s my favourite synth, the architecture is just brilliant.

 

It can play samples, true, but most patches actually apply some form of resynthesis, where the sound is rebuilt from sinewave

partials from example, allowing all kinds of interesting things to be made.

 

What do you mean "so small" about Sylenth1? It does not need a lot of sample data, and code does not take much space?

 

The limit between sample based/ not sample based is not simple like that. Many VA synths actually use precalculated waveform lookup

tables anyway, so they could be said to be wavetable synths in fact. About the very latest "circuit modelling" based ones I don´t

know though, if they really have a mathematical realtime circuit model of the oscillator running realtime the whole time.

 

I also don´t quite understand your comment about Sylenth sounds? It has exactly the same artchitecture like any other analogfu modelling

synth, so the sound programming is the same than any other synth? Read the manuals, they help to understand how the different

sounds are produced. A kick sound usually for example is just one wave (or filter with high resonance, creating a sinewave) modulated

with a steep pitch envelope, and the sequences come from an arpeggiator running. An arpeggiator is a part inside the synth that

creates note sequences without the need to send notes in the synth from the sequencer.

 

Omnisphere is a sampler, but it has also oscillators you can use in addition with the samples. And these too are sample based for

almost sure.

 

I agree with everything you said. You didnt have to re-clarify or so, I totally agree and wasnt trying to argue at all

Cool that Alchemy lives on, I loved that synth.

 

By sylenth1 beeing small, yes i mean size and cpu/mem requrement and yet is immensly powerful

 

I know that the limit between sample based synts and non sample based are not like that, if that was the case, then it wouldnt be a synth it would just be sampler / sampling machine

 

again, I really dont understand your need to argue and ask these questions, as my response was just basically my opinions on some of my fav synths wasnt trying to start an argument, eaz up bro, peace

[astralprojection]

Well obviously I didn´t test everything. Originally I was just auditing a few synths for a tune I was making, mentioned that in some discussion and somebody asked me to post the results. And of course I had to add a few ones Trilian, I don´t think there's a demo? OTOH Omnisphere´s filters are quite bad IMO, I would expect Trilian to have the same ones?

 

In the mixed ones there is a lowpass filter at around 30hz IIRC, and that actually has a huge effect on the synths, depending on the rolloff. But still some synths sound better than others, even with the same settings

 

Both Omnisphere and Trillian and Atmosphere if it still exists are really overprized and imho not worth it. Especially Trillian. You get mostly better results with a synth like zebra, sylenth1, or vanguard: )

trillian is just expensive as heck and really really large.

But sure if you are looking to play bass in a band for example, and dont have either a live bass player you can use this to play real sounding bass sounds from different types of intstruments

but for psytrance it is not worth it at all.

omnisphere is cool but again, not worth it, id rather go with Massive or Alchemy any day, over omnisphere

[jivamukti]

Trilian, I don´t think there's a demo? OTOH Omnisphere´s filters are quite bad IMO, I would expect Trilian to have the same ones?

 

In the mixed ones there is a lowpass filter at around 30hz IIRC, and that actually has a huge effect on the synths, depending on the rolloff. But still some synths sound better than others, even with the same settings

Yeah no demo for Trilian. I don't know if the filters are exactly the same, never bothered to test TBH.

 

Huh? Lowpass? Do you mean highpass, because lowpass at 30 hz would make no sense. If you aren't using a linear phase eq for the high cut, phase shifting will be introduced in the sound, altering its character - which may or may not be subtle and sound good depending on the eq algorithm. Yep not all synths are created equal.

[Taika-Kim]

Highpass of course

 

I like Omnisphere, it´s expensive but the sound files it draws the waveforms are 100% quality, I used it a lot on my latest album. And now with version 2 and the ability to import your own waveforms, it seems super interesting. But yes, very expensive, I´m not sure if I´m upgrading :/

 

And sorry if that sounded upfront earlier, not meant at all

[Taika-Kim]

And yeah I so want the new version of Alchemy, it's one of the three VSTs apart from my hardware that the last album was based on... I want it almost enough to change to an Intel motherboard and CPU and install OSX...

[astralprojection]

which albums, who are you?

[jivamukti]

I like Omnisphere, it´s expensive but the sound files it draws the waveforms are 100% quality, I used it a lot on my latest album. And now with version 2 and the ability to import your own waveforms, it seems super interesting. But yes, very expensive, I´m not sure if I´m upgrading :/

Yep running your own stuff through the Omnisphere DSP opens up a lifetime worth of options. The granular and FM synthesis sections are much improved over v. 1. There's also real wavetables now.

 

The thing about v. 1 that's always bothered me apart from missing sample import - and I never saw this issue raised anywhere - is that in synthesis mode it's basically two single oscillator synths per layer. You can't run multiple oscillators (not counting unison mode) through a common filter, which is extremely limiting. In v 2 you can layer different waveforms in each part but the menu is tucked away.

[recursion loop]

Summa summarum if you want to make a psy bass with the least effort, use Sylenth1.

 

This is my experience as well. Tried Dune2, Spire, Zebra but always come back to Sylenth.

[Taika-Kim]

which albums, who are you?

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