Opinion : Psytrance hippies are the worst lot

[MrAnarchy]

Yes. I think you should respect him for that opinion.

And i dont think you should be angry with him.

That doesnt in any way - infringe on your rights.

Same goes for me merely reading a book! It doesnt infringe on his rights now does it?

Just like the white dudes with dreads, bangos and bindis dont disrespect other cultures and religions. Thats why I think the author of that article is just plain wrong.

[astralprojection]

Same goes for me merely reading a book! It doesnt infringe on his rights now does it?

Just like the white dudes with dreads, bangos and bindis dont disrespect other cultures and religions.

But now you are talking about something else.

I never said you reading a book would infringe on his rights. Please do not put words in my mouth.

I said that I think you should respect his opinion.

 

I also said I can completely understand a person getting upset if seing another read about satanism.

Heck - I would also ask about it.

 

But that doesnt mean you should disrespect him.

You can dislike him all you want, but you should still respect his opinion.

 

Did he voilate your rights reading the book - when he stated his opinion? Did he forcefully remove the book from your possession?

 

edit: white guys with rastas/dreads - are you saying thats perfectly fine and do not disrespect anyone? if so, then i am correct when i stated you are an ignorant and disrespectful person.

OF COURSE white guys with dreads CAN CAUSE a myriad of feelings in people.

and youre saying you dont respect that? Why not?

[Rasalom]

Properly understanding the significance will mean understanding how it will make someone of that culture feel when they see a bindi (or feathered head-dress etc) worn or used in a manner inappropriate or even directly contrary to its purpose in the culture from which it comes. If you understand that by reducing something of great cultural significance to a mere fashion item you will upset people of that culture, but you do it nonetheless, you're being pretty arrogant and insensitive IMO.

 

Posers are an entirely separate problem!

 

I find many things people do to be rude &/or insensitive... but the list is simply too great to worry about. While I would prefer people to understand all of the religious aspects of Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism when dressing with various symbols associated with those faiths, it's not a real issue for me. As long as they aren't harming anyone, I really don't mind.

 

There are so many wonderful aspects to all of the different cultures on this planet, that it would be sad for people not to be able to fully experience them all.

 

I lived for many, many years all over Japan. And one thing I loved about the Japanese culture was their ability to absorb nice aspects of other cultures into their own. It's as if they see something that just works better, and they will adopt it over time. I have a lot of respect for that system.

[Colin OOOD]

I know that what I'm about to do will make you feel deeply uncomfortable because it remind you of that time when my ancestors killed all your ancestors and stole from them everything of value they could find. It will also remind you that my house is built on the land where all your ancestors have been buried for thousands of years, and that it's much harder for you to get a job than it is for me because of your ancestry. I don't have to do it but I will because I like the way it looks, and it's fun for me to do it.

 

I know all that, but I'm going to do it anyway, because I 'respect' you.

[astralprojection]

when i rap along to hip hop, i constantly say the word "nigga" or "nigger" if you want.

And im FULLY aware that some people might frown upon me using that word.

So i decide NOT to use it, in public.

 

You see what happened there? I respect people for thinking that is racist.

And they can respect me (if they want) for simply singing along.

they can hate me and call me racist if they want - but thats fine. I understand it.

That word has been used in a very negative way. So i completely respect that.

 

But i still claim the right to accurately sing along, and not censor myself doing so.

 

That doesnt hinder me from respecting that some people MIGHT be offended - so i decided not to articulate that word in public. its just easier than to constantly bring a discussion and argumentation to the table.

 

I know that what I'm about to do will make you feel deeply uncomfortable because it remind you of that time when my ancestors killed all your ancestors and stole from them everything of value they could find. It will also remind you that my house is built on the land where all your ancestors have been buried for thousands of years, and that it's much harder for you to get a job than it is for me because of your ancestry. I don't have to do it but I will because I like the way it looks, and it's fun for me to do it.

I know all that, but I'm going to do it anyway, because I 'respect' you.

exactly!

I dont get how some people cant respect this.

its very obvious to me anyway...

 

and i can completely understand why some hindus might not be so keen on "us" using their sacred symbols willy nilly.

[Colin OOOD]

 

I find many things people do to be rude &/or insensitive... but the list is simply too great to worry about. While I would prefer people to understand all of the religious aspects of Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism when dressing with various symbols associated with those faiths, it's not a real issue for me. As long as they aren't harming anyone, I really don't mind.

 

There are so many wonderful aspects to all of the different cultures on this planet, that it would be sad for people not to be able to fully experience them all.

 

I lived for many, many years all over Japan. And one thing I loved about the Japanese culture was their ability to absorb nice aspects of other cultures into their own. It's as if they see something that just works better, and they will adopt it over time. I have a lot of respect for that system.

It's not a huge issue for me either; I don't walk around all day getting angry about this stuff, partly because life is too short and partly because I know I'm as unwittingly guilty of it as many people because many of the things thus appropriated have been integrated into my own culture since before I was born, and I don't have as much control over my cultural conditioning as I might like.

 

But if we're going to have a discussion about it the for sure there's gonna be a lot to say.

[MrAnarchy]

But now you are talking about something else.

I never said you reading a book would infringe on his rights. Please do not put words in my mouth.

I said that I think you should respect his opinion.

 

I also said I can completely understand a person getting upset if seing another read about satanism.

Heck - I would also ask about it.

 

But that doesnt mean you should disrespect him.

You can dislike him all you want, but you should still respect his opinion.

 

Did he voilate your rights reading the book - when he stated his opinion? Did he forcefully remove the book from your possession?

 

edit: white guys with rastas/dreads - are you saying thats perfectly fine and do not disrespect anyone? if so, then i am correct when i stated you are an ignorant and disrespectful person.

OF COURSE white guys with dreads CAN CAUSE a myriad of feelings in people.

and youre saying you dont respect that? Why not?

Im talking about freedom of chosing how you want to look no matter the race or cultural background. The fact that you are fine with the negative attitude towards a white person with dreads(and the rest) shows that YOU are disrespectful and limited. Its a stereotype to say only a person of certain culture can have dreads (or anything else).

And no, Im not ignorant (not about this atleast). I just dismiss that limited way of thinking.

[Colin OOOD]

Actually it's a sign of empathy - of being able to put yourself in another person's place and understand why they feel the way they do when you take their cultural symbols and completely ignore them.

 

Empathy is good. Having it stops us being exploitative psychopaths. I can understand why some Rastafarians might look down on me because I have dreads. In fact, that's never happened to me because my dreadlocks are longer than those of most Rastafarians, which indicates that I have a commitment to them similar to their own, for all that the actual reasons I have them might be different. This shared degree of commitment is something that, in my limited experience, most Rastafarians can respect.

[astralprojection]

Im talking about freedom of chosing how you want to look no matter the race or cultural background. The fact that you are fine with the negative attitude towards a white person with dreads(and the rest) shows that YOU are disrespectful and limited. Its a stereotype to say only a person of certain culture can have dreads (or anything else).

And no, Im not ignorant (not about this atleast). I just dismiss that limited way of thinking.

again you are putting words into my mouth.

I never said i was fine with anything. In fact. i never shared one single feeling towards anything yet.

I was discussing a fact

 

My feelings are completely irrelevant. But if you want to know - i think its childish as fuck to become upset seeing someone reading up on satanism. I might even be a satanist for all you know.

So my feelings here are completely irrelevant.

 

Also, did you see me chastising white people with dreads? no.

Heck, I might have dreads for all you know.

 

I simply said i respect that people MIGHT BE OFFENDED by it.

And I completely understand it.

dreads come from a religion - with not many white members - so it is entirely possible black guys in said religion might think a white guy in dreads is mocking their religion.

Did i say i think that is correct? no.

I said only - i can completely respect that people feel that way.

 

Actually it's a sign of empathy - of being able to put yourself in another person's place and understand why they feel the way they do when you take their cultural symbols and completely ignore them.

 

Empathy is good. Having it stops us being exploitative psychopaths. I can understand why some Rastafarians might look down on me because I have dreads. In fact, that's never happened to me because my dreadlocks are longer than those of most Rastafarians, which indicates that I have a commitment to them similar to their own, for all that the actual reasons I have them might be different. This shared degree of commitment is something that, in my limited experience, most Rastafarians can respect.

Well put and illustrates my point exactly. While you can accept that some might talk down on you - you still claim the right to chose dreads.

Noones opinion or feelings is hurt in this scenario.

[MrAnarchy]

Actually it's a sign of empathy - of being able to put yourself in another person's place and understand why they feel the way they do when you take their cultural symbols and completely ignore them.

 

Empathy is good. Having it stops us being exploitative psychopaths. I can understand why some Rastafarians might look down on me because I have dreads. In fact, that's never happened to me because my dreadlocks are longer than those of most Rastafarians, which indicates that I have a commitment to them similar to their own, for all that the actual reasons I have them might be different. This shared degree of commitment is something that, in my limited experience, most Rastafarians can respect.

Im not saying I dont understand why he reacted the way he did, Im saying that I highly disagree with the way he reacted. That doesnt make me incapable of being empathetic. I think that they have no reason to get upset with you having dreads.

Im sorry guys but I just dont care enough about culture and religion to allow them to create negative feeling towards people I dont even know. Fuck that seriously!

[astralprojection]

Im not saying I dont understand why he reacted the way he did, Im saying that I highly disagree with the way he reacted. That doesnt make me incapable of being empathetic. I think that they have no reason to get upset with you having dreads.
Im sorry guys but I just dont care enough about culture and religion enough to allow them to create negative feeling towards people I dont even know. Fuck that seriously!

well. you might have understood it but you said you flat out disrespected it.

the rest is pretty much semantics.

and the fact you dont care proves my initial point. now, why didnt you just agree with me, instead of starting a discussion? while im happy you did, cause it really proved my point - i dont really understand it - since you allready knew that i was right. you ARE in fact, a disrespectful person, and you knew it.

and i respect you for it.

[Rasalom]

Actually it's a sign of empathy - of being able to put yourself in another person's place and understand why they feel the way they do when you take their cultural symbols and completely ignore them.

 

Empathy is good. Having it stops us being exploitative psychopaths. I can understand why some Rastafarians might look down on me because I have dreads. In fact, that's never happened to me because my dreadlocks are longer than those of most Rastafarians, which indicates that I have a commitment to them similar to their own, for all that the actual reasons I have them might be different. This shared degree of commitment is something that, in my limited experience, most Rastafarians can respect.

The most wicked dreads I've ever seen were being worn by Sadhus in India. To me, having dreads shows a mindset of being less fashion focused and more mind focused. Hence the Rastafarians, Sadhus, and others with a mystical bend to their thinking wearing them.

 

Example, this guy. Wicked dreads, and a nice mindset to boot. very fitting.

[astralprojection]

The most wicked dreads I've ever seen were being worn by Sadhus in India. To me, having dreads shows a mindset of being less fashion focused and more mind focused. Hence the Rastafarians, Sadhus, and others with a mystical bend to their thinking wearing them.

 

Example, this guy. Wicked dreads, and a nice mindset to boot. very fitting.

to me, wearing dreads signals a very dirty* human being who doesnt enjoy washing his/her head

 

* being dirty can be exhilirating and playful.

[Colin OOOD]

It's all a bit "my conception of the value of culture is correct and yours is wrong so don't get upset by anything I do that uses bits of your culture inappropriately, and if you do, fuck you".

[Colin OOOD]

Example, this guy. Wicked dreads, and a nice mindset to boot. very fitting.

The older I get and the less involvement I have with the scene, the freer I feel to voice my true opinion about things, and about people's actions and words. I have fewer attachments than I once had, and value my own integrity more. There is a conflict here because I know I can sometimes be opinionated and obstinate, and I know I have a way of putting things that can be very cutting, and I know that can make people feel like I don't appreciate them as a whole when I'm only actually disagreeing with their opinion.

 

Please do not mistake my part in this discussion for a lack of appreciation and gratitude for the fact that you enjoy the music I and my friends make, and for the kind things you've said..

[astralprojection]

The older I get and the less involvement I have with the scene, the freer I feel to voice my true opinion about things, and about people's actions and words. I have fewer attachments than I once had, and value my own integrity more. There is a conflict here because I know I can sometimes be opinionated and obstinate, and I know I have a way of putting things that can be very cutting, and I know that can make people feel like I don't appreciate them as a whole when I'm only actually disagreeing with their opinion.

 

Please do not mistake my part in this discussion for a lack of appreciation and gratitude for the fact that you enjoy the music I and my friends make, and for the kind things you've said..

how else would we recieve your opinion? Obviously you hate your fans and completely disrespect their opinions. Thats obvious.

[MrAnarchy]

well. you might have understood it but you said you flat out disrespected it.

the rest is pretty much semantics.

 

and the fact you dont care proves my initial point. now, why didnt you just agree with me, instead of starting a discussion? while im happy you did, cause it really proved my point - i dont really understand it - since you allready knew that i was right. you ARE in fact, a disrespectful person, and you knew it.

and i respect you for it.

I am disrespectful towards people who disrespect other peoples rights. And no I didnt disrespect him in the first place by merely reading a book. If that makes me disrespectful and ignorant in your book, then fine, sir. I still completely disagree with you.

[astralprojection]

I am disrespectful towards people who disrespect other peoples rights. And no I didnt disrespect him in the first place by merely reading a book. If that makes me disrespectful and ignorant in your book, then fine, sir. I still completely disagree with you.

Meh. comon dude..

What right did he infringe, when cussing at you for reading that book? What did he do or say - that had you feeling this way?

 

And what makes you NOT respect his views? You are intelligent enough - how come its so hard for you to respect why someone might feel any type of way; by you reading about satanism?

Wouldnt you want people respecting your views , whatever they might be, on satanism?

Then by accepting that - you also have a responsibility. It goes both ways.

You cant have it just one way.

[Rasalom]

The older I get and the less involvement I have with the scene, the freer I feel to voice my true opinion about things, and about people's actions and words. I have fewer attachments than I once had, and value my own integrity more. There is a conflict here because I know I can sometimes be opinionated and obstinate, and I know I have a way of putting things that can be very cutting, and I know that can make people feel like I don't appreciate them as a whole when I'm only actually disagreeing with their opinion.

 

Please do not mistake my part in this discussion for a lack of appreciation and gratitude for the fact that you enjoy the music I and my friends make, and for the kind things you've said..

I was agreeing with you about the dreads

 

And while I differ from your opinion on this matter, I still understand your points. A differing opinion expressed well will never be offensive to me (unless it is a truly offensive opinion... like trying to justify horrific acts of wanton cruelty). With nearly 7 billion people on Earth, it would be pretty dull if we always agreed on everything completely.

[Colin OOOD]

how else would we recieve your opinion? Obviously you hate your fans and completely disrespect their opinions. Thats obvious.

Sometimes I have make pictures.

[astralprojection]

Sometimes I have make pictures.

i dont get it.

i might, but meh. seems odd to make fun of someones poor grammar in this manner..

but thats fine.

[Colin OOOD]

i dont get it.

i might, but meh. seems odd to make fun of someones poor grammar in this manner..

but thats fine.

I wasn't making fun of your grammar. "Sometimes I have make pictures" is a saying from Ye Olde Days of this forum, and I use it to reply to something that I'm not sure is being said seriously or not Sarcasm doesn't always come across in text

 

There was no insult intended, although if what I said is an insult in your culture (excepting its religious aspects) then I will do my best to respect that more in future when speaking to you. (/s)

[MrAnarchy]

Meh. comon dude..

What right did he infringe, when cussing at you for reading that book? What did he do or say - that had you feeling this way?

 

And what makes you NOT respect his views? You are intelligent enough - how come its so hard for you to respect why someone might feel any type of way; by you reading about satanism?

Wouldnt you want people respecting your views , whatever they might be, on satanism?

Then by accepting that - you also have a responsibility. It goes both ways.

You cant have it just one way.

Well first of all, the book isnt about christian(theological) satanism, its about LaVeyan satanism which uses the old hebrew word "satan" meaning adversary or to oppose.

Second, respect doesnt have anything to do with intelligence. Understanding does and I do understand him.

Third, I do respect Christianity. But he didnt respect me. In that moment he didnt know that the book wasnt connected to christianity at all so I'll throw that out of the picture. Even then (me reading a devils book), he disrespected me in the first place. It already wasnt going in two ways.

[astralprojection]

I wasn't making fun of your grammar. "Sometimes I have make pictures" is a saying from Ye Olde Days of this forum, and I use it to reply to something that I'm not sure is being said seriously or not Sarcasm doesn't always come across in text

 

There was no insult intended, although if what I said is an insult in your culture (excepting its religious aspects) then I will do my best to respect that more in future when speaking to you. (/s)

haha no bro thats fine. i just didnt get the reference. i do now

[astralprojection]

Well first of all, the book isnt about christian(theological) satanism, its about LaVeyan satanism which uses the old hebrew word "satan" meaning adversary or to oppose.

Second, respect doesnt have anything to do with intelligence. Understanding does and I do understand him.

Third, I do respect Christianity. But he didnt respect me. In that moment he didnt know that the book wasnt connected to christianity at all so I'll throw that out of the picture. Even then (me reading a devils book), he disrespected me in the first place. It already wasnt going in two ways.

well, what book it was is pretty irrelevant dont you think?

well then if you understand him, how come you cant intelligently accept his views? again, what makes the fact, that you respecting him - do in any way shape or form - to infringe on your rights?

i just dont get it.

isnt it just easier to respect he feels that way and forget it? doesnt it cost more energy to NOT respect it, and get mad by it?

 

i mean, haters gonna hate, right?

and it sounds to me that guy was just a hater?