Modern goa/new school

[Penzoline]

Recently gave a listen to Hypnoxock's album thanks to antic, not much of a follower of neo stuff but me like it, those symbiosis and transformation tracks were quite trippy and packing crazy in a good way soundscape

The new hypnoxock has a lot of things that goa from the 90s had. It's really surprising.

[WarpedMind]

The new hypnoxock has a lot of things that goa from the 90s had. It's really surprising.

Yee I agree, some had that classical Indian music arrangement, some had a more wicked EBMesque with acid vibe and overall it was a very good production

[Celaripo]

we have to consider that the golden era of goa trance was 1995-1998 that is only 4 years

new school goa as it called has been produced for over 10 years now so of course many are growing tired of it

 

also an underrated factor, many successful artists of the past were bands of 2, 3, 4 (sometimes more) people: astral projection, mfg, dimension 5, infected mushroom, etnica, koxbox, x-dream were all composed by several artists, which mean maybe more ideas and more talent combined

sure some others succeded by working alone on some projects: hallucinogen, oforia, elysium, chi-ad to name a few, but lots of the best music was produced by combined talent of several producers

nowadays, almost all projects are solo projects, several people working together are very few (lunar dawn comes to mind)

 

Which our track?

I find all of them fine, some of them highest...

almost everything released to be honest

[Xamanist]

This kind of discussion comes from the beginning of time and goes till the end of time

Taste is a very personal thing, so of course there will be a lot of disagreement when we compare.

Some people favour to hear lots of tracks in the particular style they like the most, others favour to hear diversity and experimenting...

Everyone gets what they want if they look deep enough

 

Personally what drew me as a musician to the goa scene was the amazement about the diversity of sounds and influences in oldschool goa trance.

Rock breaks, asian melodies, tribal elements, voices, fx, everything goes!

Sometimes the mix was amazing, sometimes was plain weird!

Since then, when I danced and tripped to goa, progressive, dark and other masterpieces, when composing I try to let myself go and let inspiration flow wherever it goes... And it's a bliss to sometimes get to where you never imagined you could!

 

I have less time than I wanted to listen to all the new music I want to, but surely masterpieces are being created as always!

And boring tracks too... But maybe in a couple of years I will love to hear the ones I dislike nowadays

 

So +1 for diversity, crossovering, imagination, creativity... And +1 for respect for what you don't like at the moment and those who like it!

 

Boom

[LunarDawn]

What I miss in many newschool goa is that 3-dimensional "spaced-out" feeling. Everything is super intence, very loud and agressive, screechy resonances, disharmonic melodies. There are lots of layers but they all are thrown right into your ears, nothing sits in the background, lots of melodies but they are mostly chaotic, atonal and not very pleasant. Judging from the reviews here this is what goa fans actually appreciate the most, so probably I'm the only one who misses this sound

Actually, this is a very good comment. I wouldn´t say atonal, or disharmonic - that´s over the edge... ...but the rest is in place. Not so much (including us, to some extent) artists involve advanced spacing techniques for their mixes, mostly layering stuff until boxed to hell. And brickwalling lot of stuff. This is very good observation, and I fully agree with this, our next album should take this manner more serious - because it makes tracks more listeneable and gives them that "breathe" space in listeners ears.

 

On the spot, sir!

[Grayling]

On 8/22/2017 at 2:35 PM, LunarDawn said:

brickwalling

This is one big factor contributing to the lack of depth and space in the new school sound. I'd love to hear some of these new albums with a much higher dynamic range... they'd open up, details would be more distinct and discernable, the music would have more impact. There's been a huge debate in metal over the last five years or so regarding dynamic range, and it's nice to see more and more albums sounding better and better. I doubt the industry standard of crushing sound with compression will change in goa circles though. 

Anyway, more to the point, I have to agree with the folks who observed that there was plenty of bad goa produced in the '90s, but the good ones are remembered. To an extent I'd have to agree that there isn't as much innovation in songwriting today vs in the '90s, but I find plenty of albums that I'd rate good to great. 

[thanosp81]

2 hours ago, Grayling said:

Anyway, more to the point, I have to agree with the folks who observed that there was plenty of bad goa produced in the '90s, but the good ones are remembered. To an extent I'd have to agree that there isn't as much innovation in songwriting today vs in the '90s, but I find plenty of albums that I'd rate good to great. 

It's funny though because back to the 90s one of the reasons Goa changed to Psychedelic was because it wasn't innovative any more. In 2-3 years time ppl thought they had heard everything Goa could give them. To be fair the problem was that Goa reached it's height production wise almost from the get go, mid 95 to mid 97.

[recursion loop]

8 hours ago, thanosp81 said:

It's funny though because back to the 90s one of the reasons Goa changed to Psychedelic was because it wasn't innovative any more. In 2-3 years time ppl thought they had heard everything Goa could give them. To be fair the problem was that Goa reached it's height production wise almost from the get go, mid 95 to mid 97.

Actually there is only so much you can do with analogue synths based on simple waveforms and basic LP/HP/BP filters (no matter how awesome they sound, their sonic range is still limited) and small mixers. Late 90 was the time when digital synths like Access Virus and Nordlead became poplular which offered more waveforms, more filters, frequency modulation and stuff like that, then DAWs were invented I believe this to some extent influenced the transition from goa driven by TB-303 to psytrance where the new possibilities of the new gear were heavily used. 

Today we can do everynthing within the computer and there are plugins which do that late 80's/early 90's analogue thing quite well and also all the "modern" FM and wavetable and whatever else kind of stuff. But I think people who are into goa have some image in their heads what goa should sound like and they try to follow some patterns in writing tracks and making sounds in order to stay true to goa or something like that. So while in 90's people tried to push the boundaries of their limited setups today the producres try to artificially limit themselves in order not to step outside of the "niche". 

This all is merely a speculation, I was never specifically focused on goa though I think I've heard large part of the most important newschool releases. It's just when I hear most of the new stuff I often think "why they are trying to sound like all the new technologies invented after year 2000 are not available to them?"

[Froee]

The guitar analogy mentioned above is a good comparison to analog synths imo. I´m a guitar player, and there is indeed a constant search for the perfect tone among us. Plug an electric guitar straight into a valve amp; At low settings it gives you clean and gentle tones, crank it up and you have a crounchy blues tone, turn on the high gain stage and you have an even heavier distorted tone. Then add effects. Tremolo, phaser, flanger, chorus, delay, reverb etc etc. It´s one instrument, but the sonic possibilities are immense. It´s the same with analog synths. Even if the sonic palette of a typical analog monosynth is rather limited, there is so much stuff to add to it. Some distortion will add new timbres, a chorus can fill out certain frequencies. So my point? That there is potential gold in the subtile characters of each "boring" waveform of old analogs. I appreciate it when it´s emphasised on a good "tone" in goa trance.

Hi btw. First post I imagine it is.

[Imba]

16 hours ago, Grayling said:

To an extent I'd have to agree that there isn't as much innovation in songwriting today vs in the '90s, but I find plenty of albums that I'd rate good to great. 

That's true but it's not because artist are not trying. Problem is in listeners i must say. That's what's holding us back. 

Goa came from many different styles, merged to become Goa Trance later. Now most of us whos doing this thinks same, about doing something 'fresh'. Ofcourse you can't merge it with Jazz or Country music but more to with other subgenres of Psytrance or techno (like Zenon does) or trance, euro trance etc.

 

Then we do this, using patterns and technics used in other styles which were used back in 90s aswel:

- offbeat or triplets from Progressive

- FM/zap fart sounds

- so called 'fullon filters' on kick/bass group

- many other things...

 

Not so unique but still not used in Goa Trance, and when you combine all of different technics from different styles and put into Goa, then it becomes something different. Then you spend months and months of that track, playing and testing around on dancefloor, finaly get it released, you are really happy with some fresh work and blaaah...

 

Then you get from 'true Goa' people something like:

- Meh, it's not old school! Bro, this kick is too sharp. That bass too phat, cmon that's fullon! Mate, that's not Goa, listen to Astral Projection or Hallucinogen! You worked on this track 6 months? You fucking wasted your time...

 

At first you are being acused for ripping off Goa from 90's. So you take your time and energy and you try something new. Wrong, now you betrayed true spirit of Goa Trance. With Goa scene being so small and limited you literaly have no much freedom for evolving. You will try, release something you think is different, people won't accept that new thing, sales will sucks and label will say NO. So you can't release music you made by your taste and what you love, without releases there is no promotion - no gigs - no money, you loose chance to upgrade your equipment and to advance. You are being tired and depresed by this and you stop. One by one will stop doing it or switch to other style or genre. I am having a lot of conversations with other artists last few years and I must say lots of them are depresed by such matter. That's a huge problem!

But you see, younger generations love and accept those changes, fresh things, modern sound. Yet older guys can't accept that is not 1995... 

 

And then you get most funniest/stupid comment like: Ah bro, this music is too loud, can't listen it because my kid is sleeping in another room????? Cmon. I understand we all have families and no much free time for parties and festivals, but don't judge music without hearing it at dancefloor! GOA TRANCE IS DANCEFLOOR MUSIC!

 

 

I am not pointing out to anyone, with this post I just wan't you to think about it. As a Goa lover you are presenting your self, do you really love this music and try to keep it alive or destroy it? Goa is small as I said and this is one of places where you come to share it with others, to hear their opinion. To most of artist this place has value. But somehow we have no more freedom regarding how to produce what we love, we can't have mastering we like because you need more dynamic range, we can't have covers we want. Basicly no freedom. No freedom - no inspiration, no inspiration - no music. In other subgenres there is no such problem, you can make whatever you want and it will be accepted and supported.

 

[Grayling]

I'd mentioned in another thread here that I've been into electronic music including goa trance since '99, but hadn't really dug in deep into the genre until the last couple years. Death metal on the other hand has been a musical obsession of mine since '94, and I know the genre and sub genres well. It's surprising how parallel death metal and goa trance are in their histories: both saw their heyday in the early to mid '90s, both saw a strong resurgence in interest in the latter part of the first decade of the 20th century. Both have fans and artists that want to see music created in the old style to perfection, and fans and artists who want to see things progress. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with any of this. Where death metal and goa trance diverge though is that there are new death metal bands who either keep pace with the old masters, or in rare instances outperform the old masters. Almost without exception, they do it via creative songwriting. It's old but new, and amazing. Maybe when old goa heads are complaining about the new goa coming out, it's because there isn't much being released that's "old but new and amazing". It's mostly either old but new and not so amazing, or new and not so amazing, or new and amazing. This is just me speculating on something I don't know too much about and haven't put a whole lot of thought into though heh heh  

[Taika-Kim]

Still waiting for new goa to open up a little, maybe forget that "goa" dogma and stretch towards some new horizons... I found revivalist movements in any art to be somehow problematic often. I've lately heard the freshest ideas in the more downtempo and broken beats territory, I'm still kind of puzzled where is the music that takes the Merkaba etc sound and gives it a bit more energy, I'm sure it would be really well-received.

[Tsotsi]

On 10/9/2017 at 7:10 AM, Taika-Kim said:

...where is the music that takes the Merkaba etc sound and gives it a bit more energy, I'm sure it would be really well-received.

Right on. I honestly think if Australians started producing Goa you would start to get this diversity in the scene. Plus the Australian music scene is pretty spot on, nice people, fun parties and great receptors of music. Goa producers and Dj's this is your calling. Come spread your magic over here.

[Tsotsi]

On 10/7/2017 at 8:43 AM, Imba said:

But you see, younger generations love and accept those changes, fresh things, modern sound. Yet older guys can't accept that is not 1995... 

I'll vouch for us young'uns. I'm 24 and am still blown away by most of the releases that have come out since i started listening 1.5 years ago. Missed the whole old school thing and honestly don't find it as appealing as what you producer's all release today. I've even learnt how to mix just so one day I can play it at some parties.
I will say though, since joining this forum I haven't seen any of the "That's not Goa" stuff going on, so I'm assuming a lot of that comes from somewhere else though it sucks to deal with i'm sure, that's humans for you. Atleast you don't have Rick and Morty type fanboys and girls. 
Any way I love what you all do and you got no debate about whats Goa from me.

[psytones]

On 8.10.2017 at 10:10 PM, Taika-Kim said:

( .... ), I'm still kind of puzzled where is the music that takes the Merkaba etc sound and gives it a bit more energy, I'm sure it would be really well-received.

Maybe this could work for you? https://sentimony.bandcamp.com/album/overdream-beautiful-thinking The last track is the slowest btw. 

 

[Ake]

This is very good goa trance and regarding the era it's 'newschool'. It's dirty, i mean really dirty. It's funky as hell and it's willful in a positive way. Producers should be inspired by this track.

[Manuser]

New Born's album was full of fillers (in my humble opinion) but Universal bus was perhaps my favorites of all, together with Omen, two very nice tracks.

Also I was reading the first page of this topic. For darker Goa trance this track is sublime (released a few months ago):

(Ufomatka - Extraterrestrial Intelligence)

 

[Tsotsi]

On 11/07/2017 at 10:12 PM, antic604 said:

 

Ok, this has got to be the most ridiculous post ever (yeah, I'm overreacting).

 

...

...

...

...and tell me again they lack 'psychedelic side'  

 

Must be our definitions of what is 'psychedelic' are completely different...

Allow me to formally rescind that ridiculous statement.  I was to distracted by production back when I said that to listen properly, not to mention lack of scope in what I was talking about.

I went from progressive straight to Proxeeus and Artha so my idea of psychedelic was something that would spin me out while listening to it. Plenty of old school does that for me now. 

[dhollmusik]

Agree with all the criticism, bullet-pointed here for convenience:

- no adventure in the composition, you've heard the first 2 minutes then you've heard it all already.

- too many elements fighting for space, just sounds like a wall of sound.  Even if you can fixate on something, it doesn't really take you anywhere.

- the mixing/mastering makes the above issue even worse by squashing this space.

 

How did it come to this?  I blame these things specifically:

1) computer screens.  The modern producer spends too much time in front of one.  His senses are focussed on seeing, not hearing.  Back when Goa was made on hardware, the producer only had tiny screens.  He was working with an array of knobs, sliders and keys.  The senses used were very tactile: combining hand-to-ear coordination rather than eye-to-ear.  Would a guitarist play his instrument with more soul if he could play a software version?

2) the loudness wars.  It's ruined a lot of music, not just Goa.  Check this video out from 2006: it demonstrates how the loudness war ruined the seminal Dire Straits album, which originally came out in 1986 to demonstrate & promote optimal dynamic range from CD audio.  Dynamic Range which has subsequently been crushed by cash-grabbing 'remasters'. 

3) the drugs don't work anymore, or rather they've changed.  There's less psychedelics in the scene, more narcotics (uppers/downers).

4) emphasing the kick: old-school often had low-frequency kickdrums with the envelope starting a little soft, which sat nicely in the mix, allowing the other elements centre-stage.  New-school often has higher-frequency sharp-attack kicks, which have a harder presence and a higher volume, this doesn't encourage focus on the other elements (presuming the other elements are worth focussing on).

 

I've tried a lot of modern goa, from different labels.  The only artist who stands out so far is Astrancer, unfortunately his work has also suffered from the loudness wars.  Ra's 9th is ok, but that samey metallic kick sure does get tiring.  There's still a lot to try out, some highly-rated Suntrip CD's I haven't spun yet so hopefully I'll be taken on a better ride, but I had to turn off that Epoch Of The Terrans comp as it was just numbing to listen to.  Putting on an old Goa Head directly after was truly soothing to the ears.

More I think about it, the more I see Forest-Psy as the spiritual successor to old-school: tells trippy stories, weird surprising stuff can happen, decent quality control of CD releases with the loudness wars thankfully not being able to destroy all the elements (because the producers tend to mix their individual tracks with awareness of space).  Some forest-psy pieces are works of art, just like some old-school, and will be enjoyed decades from now (just like any good music regardless of genre).

 

Disclaimer: as I mentioned in another thread the above is from the perspective of home-listening.  I understand and respect the argument that this new-school sound works well at big parties.  I do still party myself, tho' rare when compared with my youngling days from late-90's/early-00's.  The only recent festival gig which really got me dancing like old times was Goa Gil's monster-set at Ozora 2017.

At least there's light in the dark...

[dhollmusik]

On 7/11/2017 at 10:27 AM, recursion loop said:

 

All in all for me this track is the pinnacle of modern goa, arguably as good as People Can Fly

 

 

Oh my...fine stuff!  Great example of what can be done if the artist is brave enough: there's progression here, build-up, excitement, energy and euphoria at the climax.  amazing what a key-change can do haha