HappyHorse Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 What do you think about this? The so called 'democratic' agreement that's on the roles between the EU and the USA. Please state and phrase your arguments Pro or contra: make a valid point. We are here to learn In my opinion the biggest problem with this agreement is:1) There is an ultimate secrecy about it, what always makes we suspicious. Democracy should be about openness.2) It gives too much power too big cooperations. Not because they want to protect their interests, but that the agreement states it can be done by lawyar and we all know that due to procedural ethics you can buy 'justice' these days. Smaller companies will drain in a swap of regulations and not be able to stand against big firms.This will lead to more world domination of even fewer 'player' on the - what we still call - the free market. Interesting article to start with: http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/06/european-union-trade-cheese-geographical-indicators-000141 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Sweeet!! Might as well extend the conversation to TPP as well. First let us look at the origin of such regional multilateral trade agreements. Failure of WTO and loosening grip of the USA on wto. More and more the developing countries are expressing their opinions and are able to get their voices heard by putting forth a combined fight. So what to do you do.? TPP & TTIP kaBooom! Fuck BRICS (china , India, Brazil , Russia , SA and others) Typical US behaviour IMO.. The sheer amount of secrecy and limited knowledge of even the elected representatives of the states involved in the agreements and setting up separate dispute redressal institutions undermining the sovereignty and other things are none the less scary. (As we might try to be a part of these in the future)Fuck the big corps. We have one GM crop (cotton) epic failure , cause of countless deaths! And then there is this bitch called fuckbook trying to control internet. ..|.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I tried to learn as much as possible from some (reliable) sources about the agreement and in general I disliked what I've found based on available informations. I've signed an online petition against and I hope people in Europe will recognize the dangers that this agreement might bring upon us all. At some point loosing your own sovereignty (even we're lossing it almost each day, but that's how democracy and capitalism rolls) isn't a good thing in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 i find it a disgrace that profit interests of companies should be "on equal fighting grounds" in special courts with democratically passed laws. the secrecy is pretty shady too. just like the initiative of the eu commission not to have the parliaments decide on ceta. but apart from all these things, such trade agreements are almost all of the time only advantageous to multinational corporations, which have more than enough power anyway. no wonder when they are the ones who are invited to discuss what should be in the agreement instead of the people... some unification of standards could be useful, but not with the many atrocities we'd also get with ttip. i don't even believe that free trade is inherently a good thing. much less that we should have more free trade whatever the price. i think we should reinstate hefty tolls against wares produced in places, where workers' rights do not conform to european standards. that way we would see less of the production emigrating and it would also be an incentive to instate proper protection for the workers in other areas of the world. a t-shirt produced in a facory where people are locked in for 12h a day with no weekends and no employee representatives should be more expensive than one that is produced domestically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 How do you think your so called "EU standards" evolved to what they are now.? Slavery and far pathetic living and working conditions than what it is now in my country. China is a special case. If you think it's easy and profitable for EU or in fact any other country to have a closed economy, think again. This "standards" logic is what pisses me off. Be it with Eco standards or even climate goals. Some people(not you) tend to completely forget about the past. It doesn't work like that. And yes, agree on the corps. (Can't recall that psy track with sample about Umbrella corporation, same scene now) Monsanto will be in your backyard Bayer is gonna buy it. Enjoy! @Pat - awaiting your entry into this wonderful thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHorse Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 How do you think your so called "EU standards" evolved to what they are now.? Slavery and far pathetic living and working conditions than what it is now in my country. I'm happy I'm not the only one knowing this. The fact that lawyers (of corporations) can sue countries, cause they might harm profits, came from European countries trying to protect their (private) interests in their (old) colonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Havent read it, the only thing so far that I know or dont know about it is its secrecy. But what Ive read from people who are in the know - its crap that will fill EU with crap food from USA, GMO including and might give big corporations power to sue separate states in case changes in local state laws might bring loss of profit or any other inconvenience to corporations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 How do you think your so called "EU standards" evolved to what they are now.? through the idea of communism, concerted effort of workers unions including general strikes and a broad consensus among top economists that classical economic policies lead to mass poverty which led to scumbags being elected and whole lot of violence* (sadly neo-classical theories are fashionable again and we see the same effects as we saw before the rise of keynesianism). i'm not exactly sure what your point is, but if it's that we can only afford our relatively humane treatmentment of workers by expoitation of people on other contintents, i strongly disagree. the above recipe did work in countries with no colonies (or former colonies) at all and it did work at a time when global trade was pretty much nonexistent when compared to now. the whole outsouring and globalisation thing got huge only in the 80s when neo-classical theories became the mainstream of economics again — since then our real wages have stagnated or gone down, while global trade went up a lot just like the profits of the big multinational corporations. *trying to talk about the history of economics before the middle of last century without invoking godwin's law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anu Katariina Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I don't want desinfected eggs and other weird food policy stuff USA ppl are unfortunately having. And GMO isn't marked in products there and now they want this "liberalism" to reach Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psy spy Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Anu Katariina - which movie is this Unicorn scene from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technosomy Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 ok raver the only way for you to fully understand it is to download all 2000 pages of it! and what i understand most lawyers don't understand it either there are even clauses there to enable them to make some of it up as they go AND WE CAN'T DO FUCKING NOTHING ABOUT IT! we had our chance to do something, and whether you activley participated in the protests... it didn't work the ones who put up the biggest fights were the kiwis, and still failed, but considering NZ is now one of the most controlled countries on the planet there is no surprises there here in australia, most of all the small farmers and manafacturers have already been cut out of deals.... the corps are getting it all and now....... if you purchase a product NZ made, it is manafactured in china...... sent to NZ, then onsent to the rest of the world once apon a time NZ products were some of the best on the planet, most i wouldn't piss on now this is only the start, GM, lawsuits to governments, confiscation of assets, water, gas you name it will be the least of your worries when that CUNT gets voted in! as for the pro's.... well at least it's shorter than agenda 21 will let you know when i finish reading it but if i can say one thing to you all............ if the term "wag the dog" means nothing to you and you read newspapers and magazines, watch tv or look at rapebook! then listen to "the finger" by younger brother and don't look at the finger, or you will miss what is really going on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 ^hear hear! Pro - @younger brother - :lol: @padmapani - you know what I meant I'll explain myself later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I missed all the heavenly glory sorry. I feel like such a small fish, less even, plankton in a large ocean. Even if I know what's going on, I have no idea how I could even make a dent on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anu Katariina Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 We have one GM crop (cotton) epic failure , cause of countless deaths! Tell me more, did insects die? Bigger animals? People? Anu Katariina - which movie is this Unicorn scene from ? You mean my gif? I don't know, found it from some gif portal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recursion loop Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 You mean my gif? I don't know, found it from some gif portal At 4:25 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anu Katariina Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 At 4:25 Hahahaha, psynews knows everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Crazy video I still don't understand the question though. Aurora to Unicorn.. Whaaat..? :/ @ Anu, apart from insects every being associated with that crop dies. Irony ain't it? (just type deaths due to BT cotton in INDIA) And now they want to introduce GM Mustard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anu Katariina Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Unicorn.. Crazy video I still don't understand the question though. Aurora to Unicorn.. Whaaat..? :/ @ Anu, apart from insects every being associated with that crop dies. Irony ain't it? (just type deaths due to BT cotton in INDIA) And now they want to introduce GM Mustard. Unicorn. I will google that GMO thing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I just had this funny thought. Alpha Go is here. So one day some corp will create a powerful AI which can learn and improve just about everything by observing and before we know it SKYNET is here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I just had this funny thought. Alpha Go is here. So one day some corp will create a powerful AI which can learn and improve just about everything by observing and before we know it SKYNET is here you're not the first one. some highly intelligent and renowed people fear such a scenario. if the "intelligence" of ai continues to increase exponentially and if we use ai to improve the intelligence of ai (which we're increasingly trying to do), we might (in 20 years or so) end up with something that could in a timeframe too short for us to notice become vastly more intelligent than we are (many experts think that reaching that point in time is inevitable; the question is only when). of course we don't even have an idea how to start to teach any sort of machine intelligence our ethics, so in the likely case that we don't solve it until then it wouldn't think in such concepts. let's hope we manage to build in a failsafe or turn it off in time before it decides that we are an obstacle to whatever goal we gave it btw: skynet- or matrix-like scenarios where humans are subordinate to the machines are rather unlikely compared to a scenario where humans don't exist anymore. that is if you go with the dystopic outcome of the whole ai scenario. most professionals i've heard who put a lot of thought into such things either predict such a catastrophic outcome or the exact opposite with huge advances in many fields. or maybe super-intelligent ai is just like commercially feasable fusion reactors or the new astral projection album and they're estimated to be 20 years away at least for the next few centuries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 even the most intelligent AI can't get us the new AP album. (Up 5 for that Padmapani ) btw I heard it's gonna come out this year 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anu Katariina Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Good thing about Brexit is that now TTIP is likely to fall Britain being a supporter of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technosomy Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 even the most intelligent AI can't get us the new AP album. (Up 5 for that Padmapani ) btw I heard it's gonna come out this year i think tom cruise will come out faster than that album!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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