Blair Thaumic Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I'm going to a psytrance party tomorrow night, my first in 3 years, and it prompted me to think out loud about why psytrance (and even moreso goa) has been so obscure in the US. Feel free to add your own observations from wherever you live. * Lack of venues Other than festivals, there aren't many places to hear the music! I'm jealous of countries like Belgium and Japan where psy/goa is played in clubs; that rarely happens here. * Size of the country Maybe small countries have more of a pressure cooker effect? Add together all psy in the US and some kind of a scene is there, but it's very spread out. * No physical, offline presence US record stores are almost all retro-oriented, sell vinyl exclusively, and usually don't bother with dance music. Maybe this pushes psytrance towards a more atomized following; less party-based, more bedroom-based?* Psytrance isn't especially 'cool' in a way that relates to American culture Americans like irony, self-awareness, and aloof detachment, often with elements of nihilism. Psytrance tends to be earnest, direct, and optimistic, in a way that goes against both the mainstream and most subcultures. * Psytrance isn't associated with Black culture in the way that most American music is Debatable, but I think it's at least a factor. Trance in general is stereotyped as a 'White' music (There's a little bit of irony in that... arguably much of the DNA of trance is found in disco and hi-NRG, which in turn were influenced by gospel and soul. But that's a post for another time.) * Association with drugs A BIG obstacle to throwing parties. AFAIK, Japan is very anti-drug, and still has a healthy psytrance scene. But see below for why the US might be different... * Racism White Americans have a history of seeing dance music as dangerous because of its association with Black culture. Combine with the 'War on Drugs' (which has always had a large racial component), and you have a recipe for more laws that restrict dancing and dance venues. Something like psytrance is going to have a tough time in this context... while not seen as Black, it's seen as dancing on (lots of) drugs, which rests on old racial fault lines. EDM and rap are sort-of accepted, because they make money and frat boys drink to them. If goa ever becomes music for frat boys to drink to, same deal with goa. Alternatively, psy/goa might actually have a better chance in the US now, since the media didn't promote it much to begin with. ;p People are also starting to revisit 90s rave as something retro and cool, and that might generate some interest in classic goa. I'm not holding my breath for that, but it would be nice to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recursion loop Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 There was a thread about this recently. https://www.psynews.org/forums/topic/71966-why-psytrance-doesnt-attract-a-bigger-audience/ The OP (Mr. Anarchy) is Serbian, so it's clearly not only US thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid-brain Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Great points. This music is WAY more popular in Europe, Israel and parts of Asia compared to America. I'm particularly interested in this one: * Psytrance isn't especially 'cool' in a way that relates to American culture Americans like irony, self-awareness, and aloof detachment, often with elements of nihilism. Psytrance tends to be earnest, direct, and optimistic, in a way that goes against both the mainstream and most subcultures. Yeah, I think that apart from linking tenuously to the 60s hippie counterculture, psytrance doesn't really connect to American culture and values in any obvious ways. I would also add that psytrance is a collective and spiritual experience whereas the USA is seen as the world's most individualistic and materialistic nation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GapTheMind Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I've often wondered about this myself, I can imagine that geography has a lot to say in this matter. In Denmark (where i'm from) the farthest you have to drive to drive to go to a party is usually only a couple of hours. Europe is simply more dense population wise. Most people who like psytrance like it because of the parties, and i guess it's hard for 'trance-hotspots' to emerge in a country as massive as USA. I remember a thread from a couple of years ago where a guy argued that "hippie-music" in the states is very much centered around psychedelic rock, whereas in Europe things like like world music and stuff is more prevalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid-brain Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I remember a thread from a couple of years ago where a guy argued that "hippie-music" in the states is very much centered around psychedelic rock, whereas in Europe things like like world music and stuff is more prevalent. Yeah, Grateful Dead is still massive over there, massive in a cultish way that I can't imagine a European band ever being. It does strike me that psychedelic music and psytrance is an extremely international genre. Almost all other genres are localised to a particular place. But you can see from the internet that there are roughly equal amounts of psytrance fans in many many countries, Russia, Israel, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, Japan... go to a Youtube video of any goa or psy video and you will find commenters in every language. Basically our scene is widely dispersed and that may be why it's less popular than it should be 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Sunray Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Electronic music in general is less popular in the US then it is in Europe. It is not something special to psytrance. There is some EDM and "electro-pop" becoming popular recently, but this is still pretty new. In europe there is a whole different history - starting with Karftwerk in the 70s, first techno coming up in the 80s, trance, house & co following. In the US there was the "New Wave" around the same time, but it died out - not real new electronic genres developed from it. * Psytrance isn't associated with Black culture in the way that most American music is Debatable, but I think it's at least a factor. I think it is a very important factor. Music in the US is/was strongly influenced by black culture (texas-cowboy country scene aside ;D). And I'm not talking about the new-shool gangsta shit, but about their music history. Music in Europe (and especially in Germany) had to basically re-invent itself after WW2. There was no more own culture, or better, ppl wanted to forger about their own culture. So for EU (and especially Germany) it was about to adopt what's coming from US/UK, or try to invent something new.. and that new thing was electronic music. Ofc US did not adapt it.. I mean, how many EU trends have every been hyped in the US?? It's vice versa usually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I mean, how many EU trends have every been hyped in the US?? It's vice versa usually it seems like the usual course for music genres is: there's a radical new idea in the us. it gains at least regional popularity, but they don't really develop it much further. instead it travels over the atlantic and the europeans (mostly the brits) tweak it to perfection. we'd both miss out on a lot if one side failed to deliver. the only big genres that don't fit into that scheme are blues and hiphop. both are so deeply rooted in black culture that the europeans (lacking a sizeable black population) cannot improve it or even reproduce it on the same level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid-brain Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 it seems like the usual course for music genres is: there's a radical new idea in the us. it gains at least regional popularity, but they don't really develop it much further. instead it travels over the atlantic and the europeans (mostly the brits) tweak it to perfection. we'd both miss out on a lot if one side failed to deliver. the only big genres that don't fit into that scheme are blues and hiphop. both are so deeply rooted in black culture that the europeans (lacking a sizeable black population) cannot improve it or even reproduce it on the same level. I really don't know about that It may be true about popular music, but many musical genres actually originated in the UK: shoegaze, drum and bass, grime, dubstep, trip hop, acid jazz, hard rock, punk rock, heavy metal, prog rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recursion loop Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Btw, could you name the most interesting or at least most known psytrance acts/artists originating from USA? I've just figured out that I don't know any American psy act (sure, there must be some good ones). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goa constrictor Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Mubali 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernetika Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I've heard that the epicenter of Psy in the US is San Francisco and the bay area. I guess it makes sense with the hippie history of that city, the burning man festival sort-of nearby and so on. There are a few US-based artists I know of and they all happen to be from that area (also they are very talented guys and some of my personal favorites). Ghreg on Earth Mubali ocelot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recursion loop Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Thanks, will check out their music. I've heard some Prog-a-lot (which is the proggy project of Ocelot) and quite liked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I really don't know about that It may be true about popular music, but many musical genres actually originated in the UK: shoegaze, drum and bass, grime, dubstep, trip hop, acid jazz, hard rock, punk rock, heavy metal, prog rock. most of them are the refined derivaties of american music. america invented rock music, britain brought it to perfection with prog rock (or whatever variant of rock you think is best ). ultimately, all metal is a derivate of rock. america invented house/techno and britain / europe used that to develop rave, dnb, dubstep, ... / trance, hardcore, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Btw, could you name the most interesting or at least most known psytrance acts/artists originating from USA? I've just figured out that I don't know any American psy act (sure, there must be some good ones). there's also goa trance: aerosis, though we haven't heard a new track from them for a while. otherwise, the only well-known artist from the us i know is chromatone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 the only big genres that don't fit into that scheme are blues and hiphop. both are so deeply rooted in black culture that the europeans (lacking a sizeable black population) cannot improve it or even reproduce it on the same level. You've obviously never heard of Roots Manuva then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid-brain Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 most of them are the refined derivaties of american music. america invented rock music, britain brought it to perfection with prog rock (or whatever variant of rock you think is best ). ultimately, all metal is a derivate of rock. america invented house/techno and britain / europe used that to develop rave, dnb, dubstep, ... / trance, hardcore, ... Okay, makes sense now It all depends on where you draw your boundaries though and what music history chooses to remember. Some would say that Kraftwerk invented techno. there's also goa trance: aerosis, though we haven't heard a new track from them for a while. otherwise, the only well-known artist from the us i know is chromatone. Good call, those are some of the best contemporary artists. Aerosis's track Contorsion is outstanding and Chromatone produces pure psytrance wizardry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 You've obviously never heard of Roots Manuva then? true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Don't forget the pioneers of Detroit techno and Chicago house - Derrick May, Carl Craig, Juan Atkins, Kenny Larkin, Kevin Saunderson. They pushed the style and have cult following even now as the inventors of house and techno. Goa trance is influenced heavily by techno, so these guys played very important role. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 true. Better than 99% of US hip hop that I've heard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anu Katariina Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I thought, hehe, that heavy metal orginated from Finland Kidding but it is number one here. Don't forget the pioneers of Detroit techno I haven't, been on my profile description since the day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psydmt Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Japan had a thriving psy scene (prob the best in the world) up until about 2005 all because a lot of psychedelics were completely legal Check out the facebook link lol https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=102045386515153&set=a.102045136515178.2082.100001290752503&type=3&theater They also have a festival culture and a not so smart police force (never saw the cops anytime in 3 years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GapTheMind Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 They also have a festival culture and a not so smart police force (never saw the cops anytime in 3 years) How is that 'not so smart'. In my experience police and festivals don't mix very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid-brain Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 On 7/20/2016 at 5:15 AM, psydmt said: Japan had a thriving psy scene (prob the best in the world) up until about 2005 all because a lot of psychedelics were completely legal Check out the facebook link lol https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=102045386515153&set=a.102045136515178.2082.100001290752503&type=3&theater They also have a festival culture and a not so smart police force (never saw the cops anytime in 3 years) Yeah that sounds like smart police to me. Just let people enjoy themselves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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