analog music is "warm" while software is "cold"...but why is cold bad?

[Anoebis]

Interesting list indeed!
 

Thanks, HappyHorse, very interesting.

 

I'm also courious what modern goa producers are using, like Mindsphere, JIS, Psy-H Project, E-Mantra, Ra, Antares etc, those who make really professional sounding music. Now there are plugins which do very convincing representationof old analogue hardware sound, like Diva, Monark, Tal Bassline-101 and others, are goa people using them? On the other hand, some of the classic digital hardware, like Virus and Nordlead, still weren't properly emulated in software, are these machines still in use? 

Mindsphere, he used to have a list somewhere, he is a freak... Using 2 TB303's Posting videos regularely... he only uses pc to record

Same story for filteria

I will ask the question to the others

[recursion loop]

I was listening to various modern goa today and I've noted that many newschool producers use sounds which are harsh and abrasive by nature, like extreme resonances, high pitched notes, unfiltered white noise etc. These kinds of things sound ugly and ear-piercing even on a  good hardware synth. E.g., Nordlead (the red thingie in that Filteria video) is often praised for its silky-smooth and clean sound, but this guy makes it scream like crazy. Btw, I dislike Filteria just for his abuse of these ugly screaming sounds.

 

So is it the part of the aesthetics? Perhaps it somehow works on a big system at a gig?  Listening to it in headphones may cause ear bleeding, tbh.

[HappyHorse]

I was listening to various modern goa today and I've noted that many newschool producers use sounds which are harsh and abrasive by nature, like extreme resonances, high pitched notes, unfiltered white noise etc. These kinds of things sound ugly and ear-piercing even on a  good hardware synth. E.g., Nordlead (the red thingie in that Filteria video) is often praised for its silky-smooth and clean sound, but this guy makes it scream like crazy. Btw, I dislike Filteria just for his abuse of these ugly screaming sounds.

 

So is it the part of the aesthetics? Perhaps it somehow works on a big system at a gig?  Listening to it in headphones may cause ear bleeding, tbh.

 

 

I don't want to make this into a subtle promo topic, but we payed extra attention to it when we released the following CD.

M-Run (booklet of album): look at it yourself ...gear is there.

 

[recursion loop]

Quite an impressive gear list! 

[antic604]

I don't want to make this into a subtle promo topic, but we payed extra attention to it when we released the following CD.

M-Run (booklet of album): look at it yourself ...gear is there.

 

I LOVED that album but my God I hope he resigns from sampling himself for the next one...

[Richpa]

I LOVED that album but my God I hope he resigns from sampling himself for the next one...

 

2nd minute ^^

 

 

[antic604]

I also asked around with some artists I had contact personally. cause this discussion triggered my mind. I wanted to know once and for all. And as I assumed they confirmed what I was already thinking.

These were the artists replies on the question, if they used only analog synths and gear in the 90's

 

(...)

 

...more answers to come

 

@HH, awesome of you for doing that, but I guess it's beside the point. Obviously a lot of synths at that time were already "digital" and artists used computers to orchestrate them, but the overwhelming difference was that those synths were still circuit-based (i.e. prone to external factors, like magnetic fields), the sound was made & modified in a much more tactile ways (velocity-sensitive keys, knobs & pads), the sound was routed via cables to the mixer and effects - and this whole chain was adding "warmth". I even vaguely remember S. Posford or Ott saying something to that effect on one of Twisted DVDs when asked why they still use those mixing desks.

 

What I mean, if your production starts & ends entirely in a computer, using just a computer keyboard and a mouse, it WILL inevitably sound much "colder" (i.e. with less soul, much more quantized to the virtual perfect timing grid, the individual sounds are "dead" so to speak) unless you specifically go out of your way to program that "soul" in.

 

Whereas in the past - and for some current artists, see the setups of Filteria, Mindsphere or M-Run above - the "warmth" is just a by-product of their process.

[antic604]

2nd minute ^^

 

 

 

Vocoder is fine. My issue was he tried to sound too serious on his debut - mimicking the tone & phrasing of some sci-fi movies, etc. - and the effect was comical

[Richpa]

IDK, to me personally it was fun, not comical in some bad way, a bit unusual and refreshing since there is no many artists who dare to sample themselves and mix that into their own music. For sure, it won't have the same effect as some sci-fi (I'm looking at you Matrix) movie, but it adds a little spark of originallity, especially when you make your own lyrics/text. Kristijan (Lunar Dawn) with Morana track also recorded his voice, I think Saša (PsiloCybian) also makes his own. Not sure about Ra with 9th opening, I always was curious about that intro (maybe Jos or Mars might know about that one...).

[Padmapani]

Not sure about Ra with 9th opening

it sounds very "metal", so i guess it's an authentic norwegian person (i.e. one of the ra guys) talking.

 

if you don't have the right kind of voice while lacking a distinct accent i think artists should stick to samples or speech generators. that's valid for ra, electric universe (portamento would be much better if there wasn't boris sampling himself with that horrible german accent), m-run, and many others.

[HappyHorse]

@HH, awesome of you for doing that, but I guess it's beside the point. Obviously a lot of synths at that time were already "digital" and artists used computers to orchestrate them, but the overwhelming difference was that those synths were still circuit-based (i.e. prone to external factors, like magnetic fields), the sound was made & modified in a much more tactile ways (velocity-sensitive keys, knobs & pads), the sound was routed via cables to the mixer and effects - and this whole chain was adding "warmth". I even vaguely remember S. Posford or Ott saying something to that effect on one of Twisted DVDs when asked why they still use those mixing desks.

 

What I mean, if your production starts & ends entirely in a computer, using just a computer keyboard and a mouse, it WILL inevitably sound much "colder" (i.e. with less soul, much more quantized to the virtual perfect timing grid, the individual sounds are "dead" so to speak) unless you specifically go out of your way to program that "soul" in.

 

Whereas in the past - and for some current artists, see the setups of Filteria, Mindsphere or M-Run above - the "warmth" is just a by-product of their process.

 

 

I stand corrected

But firstly I just wanted to clear out that people back in the days did not work 100% analog. Plus that this is not the (only) reason for warm sounds in the past and cold(er) sounds now.

Secondly I agree with you all along: most modern 'producers' create 'music' on only computers and indeed that makes it colder, even harder I guess. Both set up and skills (aiming for top quality in mixing and forming a unique sound) are key. Time, patience and effort included.

[HappyHorse]

UPDATE: "Etnica"

 

 

Quote:
"We also used digital synths: Roland jv 1080, JD 800, e-mu morpheus, Nord Lead and later on Access virus Indigo.. Of course also the Akai samplers we used for drums and samples."

Pretty hard to get all those lines and melodies with only analog gear Some people today consider the nord lead analog when it's virtual analog instead, same goes for all the virus keyboards.
 

[Djuna]

Some of these mentioned synths' sounds (like the JV-1080) are actually sampled layers of old analog synths... To make it even more difficult.

[antic604]

...and then you have virtual analog synthesizers, e.g. Access Virus, Korg Prophecy, Nord Lead, Roland JP8000 

 

I remember going to music shops 20 years ago, drooling over that hardware, trying different sounds and pretending I know how to play 

[thanosp81]

...and then you have virtual analog synthesizers, e.g. Access Virus, Korg Prophecy, Nord Lead, Roland JP8000 

 

I remember going to music shops 20 years ago, drooling over that hardware, trying different sounds and pretending I know how to play 

Same here. I remember a place in Brighton which was essentially a huge corridor and I was trying all the hardware one by one.

 

Most ppl nowdays I think by saying analog mean using only hardware with no PC.

[Colin OOOD]

LOL

[antic604]

LOL

 

I'd prefer you elaborated a bit more on that - of all the people here you should have the most experience and knowledge

[Colin OOOD]

It's hard to know where to start but it boils down to the fact that terms like "warm" and "cold" have no agreed meaning in terms of sound quality and are purely subjective, and conversations like this often end up chasing their own tails as a result of people using different definitions and ascribing them to different causes. My opinion is that warmth or coldness are the end result of a combination of a myriad different factors, and can be emphasised or de-emphasised in any given production by a multitude of different means depending on the engineer's own taste and available tools.

[LunarDawn]

Kristijan (Lunar Dawn) with Morana track also recorded his voice

Oooops, I did it again with Sun Sith Samples sometimes soon