Void Mantra Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Seriously guys, your digital albums are too expensive. I don't want to be an ass here, and I know a lot of money and work are involved in the creation of those albums, but seriously anything higher than 10USD is not competitive by today's standard. More frustrating is the fact that, most of the time, the digital release is sold at the same price of the physical copy, which doesn't make sense at all for the consumer. I used to be a big apologist of the physical format; I have around 1000+ cds (mostly underground metal) and a decent vinyl collection. However, there comes a time that getting a cd in the mail is no long special; just another printed piece of plastic on its way to collect dust on the shelves. That was my experience anyway. Once I got out of that "collector" mentality, the switch to digital was just so obvious. Occasionally, I don't mind going for the hard copy and paying the high price for some truly special edition but at the end of the day, I'll go for digital 99% of the time. I'm all for supporting labels and all; I think the fair trade music phenemenon with bandcamp is the best thing that could happen to the music industry but I think we have to be careful going to the other extreme where the consumer is being screwed. Kind of remind me those 400min animé sold at 300 euros pressed on limited edition. Their message is: "We don't sell many copies, die-hard fans will pay the high price to compensate". Is it fair to the fans? I don't think so. To a lesser extend, I think the same scenario happens within the goa scene. What I don't understand is why the digital format sells at the same price as the physical? Is it to discourage people away from digital just to make sure the cd stock sells? That's the only plausible solution I can think of. And yes, when I'm asked 13 pound for a single digital album, I feel abused as a fan. I'm all for support and I don't mind paying a extra dollar or 2 on bandcamp (compared to the price asked on, say, Itunes) to help out the label/band...but considaration has to be both ways... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's one of the reasons why we (at Neogoa) still try to offer digital music for free. It's not easy, it requires a lot of money, but thanks to 'name your price' option on Bandcamp we're able to cover at least some of our expenses. In long run, it will affect the number of releases we publish through the year, but still we will continue to offer music for free download. Regarding the physical releases, they will be available in both formats (and if artists agrees on Ektoplazm too). I can't speak for others, but I agree that in some cases digital downloads are overpriced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Mantra Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's one of the reasons why we (at Neogoa) still try to offer digital music for free. It's not easy, it requires a lot of money, but thanks to 'name your price' option on Bandcamp we're able to cover at least some of our expenses. In long run, it will affect the number of releases we publish through the year, but still we will continue to offer music for free download. Regarding the physical releases, they will be available in both formats (and if artists agrees on Ektoplazm too). I can't speak for others, but I agree that in some cases digital downloads are overpriced.I hear you. In an ideal world, everyone would actually put some money for those "nyp" releases. Sadly, it's not always the case, but on the other side of things, it gives more exposure to the labels. Anyway, definitely a smart move by Neogoa. More reasons why I'm inclined to support your releases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antic604 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Well, I agree but at the same time I'm afraid current consumers of music (i.e. younger people ) look at it differently. In the past "an album" was say 10-12EUR/USD which translated in 40-50PLN in Poland. It's the same now, only the medium has changed from plastic disc to just files on local HDD or even "in the cloud". For them, they don't know any better - it's still "an album". They pay for the music, not the medium. Also, modern times made it "normal" to pay for digital stuff - subscription for your Netflix, Dropbox, Office365, Playstation Network / Xbox Live, etc. For them digital formats and associated cost are a normal thing, for me - an old fart expecting things to still be tangible - they're "inferior" or less valuable, because I don't get the "thing" anymore, even if that "thing" then lays shrink-wrapped on the shelve... But even in the digital world the prices can vary quite a lot - e.g. for recent Imba "First Encounter": - Suntrip Bandcamp store: 11EUR https://suntriprecords.bandcamp.com/album/imba-first-encounter - Google Play Store: 4,5EUR https://play.google.com/store/music/album/Tristan_The_Borderline_Generation?id=Bddytyg4iokc6eaw2i3robyqfra so you really need to seek the best deals. OT, but it's actually even worse in the world of console gaming, where digital is often more expensive (10-15%) than physical and to make it worse cost of physical games drops quickly, but digital does it rarely (unless the game bombs hard). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antic604 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 BTW, if you guys could check what price the Google Play Store shows for you and report? I believe they have a system that adjusts the pricing depending on where you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I hear you. In an ideal world, everyone would actually put some money for those "nyp" releases. Sadly, it's not always the case, but on the other side of things, it gives more exposure to the labels. Anyway, definitely a smart move by Neogoa. More reasons why I'm inclined to support your releases. Thanks man! We're working on the option to include all our back-catalogue on Bandcamp to offer people the music so they can add it in their collection (since I believe many of you are getting our music on Ektoplazm), so if you have it, why not have it on your own collections on Bandcamp too. As usual, it will be available for free download. That's around 50 releases in total. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanosp81 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I think it's time to find a proper word for "digital" releases. Surely, a cd is digital as well, isn't it? So any ideas? Downloadable releases, online releases... It reminds me of another thread, difference between digital and analogue hardware. Nowdays any kind of hardware it's regarded as analogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 - Google Play Store: 4,5EUR https://play.google.com/store/music/album/Tristan_The_Borderline_Generation?id=Bddytyg4iokc6eaw2i3robyqfra BTW, if you guys could check what price the Google Play Store shows for you and report? $5.31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanosp81 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 $5.31 Wow, £6.99. Expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Mantra Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Well, I agree but at the same time I'm afraid current consumers of music (i.e. younger people ) look at it differently. In the past "an album" was say 10-12EUR/USD which translated in 40-50PLN in Poland. It's the same now, only the medium has changed from plastic disc to just files on local HDD or even "in the cloud". For them, they don't know any better - it's still "an album". They pay for the music, not the medium. Also, modern times made it "normal" to pay for digital stuff - subscription for your Netflix, Dropbox, Office365, Playstation Network / Xbox Live, etc. For them digital formats and associated cost are a normal thing, for me - an old fart expecting things to still be tangible - they're "inferior" or less valuable, because I don't get the "thing" anymore, even if that "thing" then lays shrink-wrapped on the shelve... But even in the digital world the prices can vary quite a lot - e.g. for recent Imba "First Encounter": - Suntrip Bandcamp store: 11EUR https://suntriprecords.bandcamp.com/album/imba-first-encounter - Google Play Store: 4,5EUR https://play.google.com/store/music/album/Tristan_The_Borderline_Generation?id=Bddytyg4iokc6eaw2i3robyqfra so you really need to seek the best deals. OT, but it's actually even worse in the world of console gaming, where digital is often more expensive (10-15%) than physical and to make it worse cost of physical games drops quickly, but digital does it rarely (unless the game bombs hard). Yep, I undertand the need for something tangible. Believe it or not, I'm quite an old school guy myself but I came to a point where I needed to reeavalute my consumption habits. Here in Canada, a physical album will cost me, on average, 2.5X the amount of a digital album. When you buy several albums a week, that makes a big difference on your budget. Put that on top of what I said earlier about not being as enthusiastic as I was about physical releases (unless it's truly special), I made a choice. But yes, I certainly wouldn't blame anybody for wanting a physical incarnation of the music they love. Every of my all-time favourite albums I own in physical format and that won't change anytime soon, believe me About streaming, again I understand the appeal but I don't like the idea of not owning your music. When your subscription is over, then it's over, you have nothing left. There's also the fact that small labels don't profit very much from streaming. In fact, your money goes indeed to the big names (Adele, Rihanna etc.) and, of course, the corporate giants such as Apple and Google. So yeah, streaming is, by far, the worst option as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antic604 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Here in Canada, a physical album will cost me, on average, 2.5X the amount of a digital album. When you buy several albums a week, that makes a big difference on your budget. Ok, so why are you complaining? I complain because - for me - digital & physical cost mostly the same. And how is that even possible - surely you can buy from Psyshop / Beatspace / etc. and I'm sure shipping won't cost that much when split over 2-3 CDs? $5.31 Seems we're in the same "poor" segment of the world according to Google. "Lucky" us Wow, £6.99. Expensive Just you wait until Brexit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Seems we're in the same "poor" segment of the world according to Google. "Lucky" us LOL yeah, but purchasing power in Croatia or in UK for example can't be compared so we're still on the same bandwagon... but I don't mind. However, tell me Antic, is there option to get WAV or FLAC on Google Play besides just MP3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 If you want it for free? But you don't support the labels or artists involved.- Go to youtubeIf you want it cheap? But you don't support the labels or artists involved.- Go for streaming but realise a label gets 0.0001€ per streamIf you want it rather cheap? But you almost don't support the labels or artists involved.- Go to the various alternative download sitesIf you want it more expensive, but you know the money goes ONLY in the right hands, and so you support the artists/label?- Go bandcamp or the label pagesIt's that simple. What do you prefer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Mantra Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Ok, so why are you complaining? I complain because - for me - digital & physical cost mostly the same. And how is that even possible - surely you can buy from Psyshop / Beatspace / etc. and I'm sure shipping won't cost that much when split over 2-3 CDs? I don't buy strictly psytrance music you know . When buying non-psytrance albums, the price for physical release generally goes up by 50% (which is perfectly ok in my books). On top of that, put a shipping cost that is rarely under 7$CAD, there you have your 2.5x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Mantra Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 If you want it for free? But you don't support the labels or artists involved. - Go to youtube If you want it cheap? But you don't support the labels or artists involved. - Go for streaming but realise a label gets 0.0001€ per stream If you want it rather cheap? But you almost don't support the labels or artists involved. - Go to the various alternative download sites If you want it more expensive, but you know the money goes ONLY in the right hands, and so you support the artists/label? - Go bandcamp or the label pages It's that simple. What do you prefer? What if I want to know that my money goes in the right hands and purchase the album at a decent price on bandcamp for 8-10USD? Am I not supporting the label? Would you prefer someome to buy your album on iTunes at 9.99CAD or directly from your bandcamp at, say, 13CAD? On one hand, you make peanuts, on the other you make a net profit of 10CAD+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antic604 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I don't buy strictly psytrance music you know . When buying non-psytrance albums, the price for physical release generally goes up by 50% (which is perfectly ok in my books). On top of that, put a shipping cost that is rarely under 7$CAD, there you have your 2.5x. Oh, in this case I agree - I wanted to buy some CDs from Ghostly International in US and was shocked to find out their shipping rates for CDs ($40 for new Tycho CD!!!), so ended up getting some of their music digitally. But in goa/psy-trance world I'd say the differences are never so huge and most of the time you also have an option to get the files along with your purchase (Bandcamp, Psyshop, Beatspace). LOL yeah, but purchasing power in Croatia or in UK for example can't be compared so we're still on the same bandwagon... but I don't mind. However, tell me Antic, is there option to get WAV or FLAC on Google Play besides just MP3? No, it's 320kbps mp3 If you want it for free? But you don't support the labels or artists involved. - Go to youtube If you want it cheap? But you don't support the labels or artists involved. - Go for streaming but realise a label gets 0.0001€ per stream If you want it rather cheap? But you almost don't support the labels or artists involved. - Go to the various alternative download sites If you want it more expensive, but you know the money goes ONLY in the right hands, and so you support the artists/label? - Go bandcamp or the label pages It's that simple. What do you prefer? For me - Bandcamp if it's available with CD, then label's web shop, then Psyshop / Beatspace. Streaming services don't exist for me (that's even more 'alien' concept for me than digital-only music...), but I use Google Play Store for general electronic (non goa/psy-trance) albums or releases that are only available in digital format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Mantra Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Oh, in this case I agree - I wanted to buy some CDs from Ghostly International in US and was shocked to find out their shipping rates for CDs, so ended up getting their music digitally. But in goa/psy-trance world I'd say the differences are never so huge and most of the time you also have an option to get the files along with your purchase (Bandcamp, Psyshop, Beatspace).Indeed. Goa labels generally have good deals cd/shipping wise. Absolutely no complain there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blubber Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 i thought that prices for music are so low like never before not to mention that alot of it is for free or to donate for peoples and problems... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antic604 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 i thought that prices for music are so low like never before not to mention that alot of it is for free or to donate for peoples and problems... Yes, 1st world problems indeed, but look at it this way - if a CD costs $10, which includes manufacturing (disc, case, inlets) & packaging, transport costs & reseller's margin, then it's sort of expected that digital version having none of that should be cheaper. In most cases it is not, in others it's $1-2 difference. Sure, labels and artists have the right to take the advantage of the situation and charge whatever their audience is willing to pay, but - likewise - we have the right to complain about it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Mantra Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 On a side note, I'm sorry if my posts seemed harsh on some labels (ie Suntrip). Far from my mind the idea to insult them, I'm aware that label management is not an easy task in this day and age. I just wish, as a digital consumer, I had as much of a good deal as a cd buyer. It's not the case; labels have their reasons and I must accept that. Still I'm glad I shared my views on that matter so that those who run labels see things from another perspective, a consumer perspective (as I know for a fact I'm not the only one who hold this point of view). That being said, I truly wish the best for those labels, no matter their decision. You guys published some outstanding music and I'll do my best to support your music, one way of another. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blubber Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Yes, 1st world problems indeed, but look at it this way - if a CD costs $10, which includes manufacturing (disc, case, inlets) & packaging, transport costs & reseller's margin, then it's sort of expected that digital version having none of that should be cheaper. In most cases it is not, in others it's $1-2 difference. Sure, labels and artists have the right to take the advantage of the situation and charge whatever their audience is willing to pay, but - likewise - we have the right to complain about it sure, you're free to complain as much as u want but you could also look the other way - if the margins from digital sales are supposed to be higher your direct support to artists and labels is higher, right? not to mention that selling a cd (high costs, low profit) is way more unprofitable than to sell digital files (lower costs, better profit) not to mention the unhuman pressure to produce fancy-looking plastics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antic604 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 sure, you're free to complain as much as u want but you could also look the other way - if the margins from digital sales are supposed to be higher your direct support to artists and labels is higher, right? not to mention that selling a cd (high costs, low profit) is way more unprofitable than to sell digital files (lower costs, better profit) not to mention the unhuman pressure to produce fancy-looking plastics Ok, you're right - we're greedy, incosiderate, nature-killing barbarians. Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Ok, so why are you complaining? I complain because - for me - digital & physical cost mostly the same. And how is that even possible - surely you can buy from Psyshop / Beatspace / etc. and I'm sure shipping won't cost that much when split over 2-3 CDs? Seems we're in the same "poor" segment of the world according to Google. "Lucky" us Just you wait until Brexit... ₹135 for the whole album. That is almost 2 Euros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antic604 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 ₹135 for the whole album. That is almost 2 Euros. Wow! I'd be really interested to know how well Google is settling those payments. I mean for their subscription service I can imagine transfers to goa/psy-trance artists & labels are very limited, but for the stuff you actually purchase it should be well correlated with the number of purchases. @Anoebis was promising to post an update on Suntrip sales sometime soon, so hopefully he's able (and willing) to provide such a break down, but considering Google isn't immediately associated with goa/psy-trance I expect the sales via their shop are rather insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I will put the sales online again around march/april, it takes that long to have all sales from digital shops. But we are sure already, sales went SERIOUSLY down, and I mean, over 20%, probably even 30 or 35... As for profit graphics, we will make one on a good day, so people realise how little sometimes the profit are... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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