Commercial psytrance?

[huxfluxarn]

I wonder what defines commercial psytrance really? I know some artists seem to be quite mainstream like Neelix, Morten Granau(?), Vini Vici etc and people dont like them because they are too commercial.. But at which point do they become commercial? Or too Mainstream? Was the Goa trance in the 90's commercial?

[Digitalys]

I see it like this: When artists create their music because they know beforehand that style will appeal to the big crowd and only want to do it because of that reason, then it is commercial. When artists create a track because they feel it might induce a trance state to certain listeners, then it is not commercial. If the latter appeals to most listeners just because it is decent and musical, and the artist ends up making a lot of money from it, it is still not "commercial" for me.

 

 

[Grayling]

It's "EDM club" music wrapped in psytrance effects. Not that you aren't allowed to listen to it, but I surely wouldn't call it psychedelic. 

[acid-brain]

On 2/22/2018 at 10:04 PM, Digitalys said:

I see it like this: When artists create their music because they know beforehand that style will appeal to the big crowd and only want to do it because of that reason, then it is commercial. When artists create a track because they feel it might induce a trance state to certain listeners, then it is not commercial. If the latter appeals to most listeners just because it is decent and musical, and the artist ends up making a lot of money from it, it is still not "commercial" for me.

I don't understand how the intention of the artist can define whether something is commercial or not. For a start, we can't fully know the intentions of the artist. Some become commercially successfully without meaning to. I think it's qualities of the music itself that define whether something is commercial: such things as unchallenging rhythms, cliched melodies, overproduction, etc.

[recursion loop]

In the late 00's "commercial psytrance" mostly meant a specific subspecies of full-on with big euphoric melodies and lots of normal trance elements. It was more accessible to casual listeners than regular psytrance and therefore the artists making it were often accused at selling out. I mean Astrix, Ananda Shake, Ephedrix and the like. 

 

Actually many of my favourite tracks are from these times/subgenre. Mind you, I've got really bad taste

Todays commercial psytrance is "futureprog". It consists of big phat bass, some squelches, more big phat bass, a mantra sample, triplets (with big phat bass ofc), some white noise FXes and even more big phat bass. Like this

 

Perhaps I'm getting old but I would rather listen to Michele Adamson trying to sing than this.

[nekuu19]

https://youtu.be/kIjFMQsb2S4

[Magic Trip]

This one it's an excellente example about commercial psyTrance 

 

[Meltwater]

On 2/22/2018 at 10:26 AM, huxfluxarn said:

Was the Goa trance in the 90's commercial?

I don't like terms like "commercial" or "mainstream" or "popular" to describe music in an international, global music scene.  Mainstream in one country might be more underground in another.  Astral Projection have sold millions of albums world wide and once had videos in circulation on late-night MTV---but not in every country.  They were certainly "commercial" in Israel, but not the US.   Perhaps the most extreme example:  when Armin and Tiesto were basically the rock stars of central and western Europe they were selling fewer albums in the US than the death metal band Cannibal Corpse.

It's all very relative.  Most kinds of music are available globally thanks to the internet, but what becomes popular in any given place will not necessarily become popular in every other given place.

 

As for the Vini Vici's of the world: I don't find them particularly psychedelic, but then neither were 1200 Mics, GMS, or Electric Universe after One Love.  If psychedelia is your only criteria for whether or not something is psytrance then pretty much nothing except goa, forest, suomi and dark is actually psy, which to me seems sort of silly...

[Kai-Q]

I call that Pop-Psy or Psy-Pop, written out = Popular Psy-Trance or Psychedelic Pop Music.
Pioneers are for it = IM.

 

[Padmapani]

8 hours ago, Meltwater said:

I don't like terms like "commercial" or "mainstream" or "popular" to describe music in an international, global music scene.  Mainstream in one country might be more underground in another. 

it's not about how popular the music actually is. in 99% of the cases these terms refer to music that has lots of pop or (whatever dance music is big at the moment) elements instead of psy elements.

if you replace the beat with a beat sounds like big room house, copy some traditional house track structure and add a few psy  squelches, you're making commercial music. same goes for putting awful cheesy singing that sounds like top40-pop over a fullon beat. if such music becomes popular (like infected mushroom) or if it flops (like alien jesus) doesn't make any difference.

of course you could say that the terms aren't completely true to their original meaning in this context, but what words would you use instead?

[Meltwater]

On 3/24/2018 at 10:03 PM, Padmapani said:

it's not about how popular the music actually is. in 99% of the cases these terms refer to music that has lots of pop or (whatever dance music is big at the moment) elements instead of psy elements.

if you replace the beat with a beat sounds like big room house, copy some traditional house track structure and add a few psy  squelches, you're making commercial music.

If commercialism isn't determined by commercial success then I don't think we should use the term commercialism at all. 

 

And if we're talking about Vini Vici-type stuff, I would (and often do) call it psyroom.  Or crap, when warranted.

[psytones]

So Psycore came, and now I hear Hardpsy is in the house? But where Psycore came from; Darkjpsy/Hitech, Hardpsy comes out of;  FutureProg. and big room if my 1 time listen to an example I fell over in a Acidmath group in Facebook ... I don't know if I wish for what I ask now, but can anyone link up an example of this new genre that is about to get established as a new genre? (Im still soar on Psycore being defined as purely 180bpm+ music and not free of BPM definition. I believe psycoreBPM180+ misses out on the paradoxical ironic effect of psychedelia  And not the fact effect of Speed. But I get it, its punkmetal, and gabbalike. Not quit Thunderdome.  -psycOre,, Unless its standstill, like some of Mirror Me who is labelled Psycore. I dont get the psycore. is it psychedelic core music, or psychotic, or what psy are we talig? His music experienced in a forest is outside personal taste very much psycore, both in the newly required speed (...) and on the effect his music gives.. 4/4 beats that stands still. No forward movement. Psy ok sure why not:)  Alot of "psycore" music should respectfully be labelled "Horrordelic",  What Hardpsy I heard that 1 time? It was not BLISS  I'll tell you that. It was much closer to this FutureProg. example upstairs, minus the nativeness--- Anyway, who cares its not of any real importance. Just, having some nitting fun. 

[psytones]

maybe Hardpsy is FutureProg. ?

Mainstream, commercial, there is a difference indeed. Infect the world with PLUR & Psytrance 

*Ibeliveinthespiritofamericannatives*

 

[Padmapani]

3 hours ago, psytones said:

 Hardpsy 

i've never heard that before. according to a quick youtube search it's hardstyle with  kbb. interesting how people define psy by (one of its many) bassline patterns.

[Tsotsi]

9 hours ago, Padmapani said:

i've never heard that before. according to a quick youtube search it's hardstyle with  kbb. interesting how people define psy by (one of its many) bassline patterns.

In Melbourne we call it Psystyle. Definitely more hardstyle than psy. But any psy in any genre is to me making it better. 

[huxfluxarn]

On 3/24/2018 at 8:00 PM, Kai-Q said:

Pioneers are for it = IM.

 

 What do you mean?

[Kai-Q]

On 15.3.2018 at 11:42 PM, nekuu19 said:

Ten reasons why Psy-Trance has become shit
https://youtu.be/kIjFMQsb2S4

Here is an another good example:

 

[psytones]

Hard-Psy (catch them all, the samples inside)

 

[RTP]

In the finer categorization we may differ ... but I hope we can agree that once somebody makes it to MAYDAY, they may well be defined as being commercial.

Because if that's not it, I don't know what.