Timelapse of the future video: I think I really just found the meaning of life?

[RTP]

Hi,

I just watched this video:

I think it's a really good piece - maybe some of the physicians here may wanna watch and comment if these theories (or are they more?) are correct.
The whole thing not only tells you how tiny and insignificant we all are (so maybe only watch it if you can take it ... 3am is maybe NOT the best time for an existential crisis, contrary to what some comments there suggest) ... it also contains the meaning of life, I would say.

In the last quarter (around 24:43) there it is said that there may be (theoretical?) possibilites for a great "atom smasher" that can concentrate massive amounts of energy at a single point to open a "gateway", a "baby universe" ... well, no matter if that is true or not, I think that says it: Given the fact that we are facing the death of everything that exists, this objective of escape must be our meaning of life ... because if the universe had a consciousness, would it not want to prevent its death?

To sustain eternal (physical) life, this device must be created, used and the next universe needs to emerge. But that's only half of the work! You then need to find a way to inject the plans for this great machine into this newly created universe so that the inhabitants of it can at some point in time construct it and "fire up the next cycle" - they need to do the same thing and the process needs to be repeated over and over ... but well, then you got it: ETERNAL LIFE ... from the universe's point of view.

Do you agree?

...if you followed me so far, great ... now, to spin it a little further:

Can this already have happened?
Can it be that a community of forces (maybe an effort of several very advanced beings in a previous universe) has, in their dying universe, created the atom smasher and thus created our universe? And then they have tried to get the plans across in a form that us beings "understand" - in the form of RELIGION and MATHEMATICS. Maybe they even split the plans up equally and thus every religion has received the key to one piece ... Mathematics, by the way, may be a separate "force" that connects these pieces ... but they only function together, meaning that humans have to overcome their differences and prove themselves worthy and work together.... well, that last part might be BS actually - because why putting more work in the process if the universe just wants to keep alive ... in truth, maybe several other more advanced lifeforms in this universe have got the plans already and are working on such an atom smasher...?
Also by the way, the original universe will die ... a copy will be created and ideas and plans can maybe transfer into it ... if lucky ... if not, the new universe must figure out all the sh*t itself, which is why maybe it has chosen me for this rambling right now ... it seems to already be super desperate if it chose me  ..

PS:
I only brought this religion stuff up because yesterday night I stumbled across an old black metal album that I own and I read up on the vocals ... which were actually bible texts about the apocalypse ... you can tell I didn't sleep much but read that stuff instead ... and in those texts it said (summed up) that those wo succumb to god will survive and the rest will perish ... so I thought, while putting this in context, that god or "his ways", as the bible may point out, may contain the keys to such an "universe death prevention device" ... may this be logical? 

PPS:
Yeah I know, I should lay off the drugs - only problem is: I am not taking any. Didn't even drink last night. Maybe that was my mistake  

[Padmapani]

2 hours ago, RTP said:

Hi,

I just watched this video:

I think it's a really good piece - maybe some of the physicians here may wanna watch and comment if these theories (or are they more?) are correct.

you'd need a physicist. a physician is a "hausarzt" ;).

2 hours ago, RTP said:

In the last quarter (around 24:43) there it is said that there may be (theoretical?) possibilites for a great "atom smasher" that can concentrate massive amounts of energy at a single point to open a "gateway", a "baby universe" ... well, no matter if that is true or not, I think that says it: Given the fact that we are facing the death of everything that exists, this objective of escape must be our meaning of life ... because if the universe had a consciousness, would it not want to prevent its death?

that thing you are describing is called black hole and we have just shot our first photo of one. there are some hypotheses about how a black hole looks from the inside (some fringe theories say that it might not be just all matter concentrated in a single point as the accepted theory suggests but that it might look like a new universe on the "inside".) but there is no way we can know that. there is no way to transmit information to or from a black hole. (to be exact that's not quite true. a black hole acquires its three properties, mass, rotation and charge (charge only in theory, black holes are neutral. still this cannot be used to transmit information)

what makes you think that our universe has consciousness? or if it had consciousness that it would want anything, or want to prevent its death? fear of death is something that has evolved in our species. natural selection kills living things prematurely that don't take care to stay alive. if the universe itself was conscious it would not have undergone such a process and most likely would not see a need to preserve its life.

2 hours ago, RTP said:

To sustain eternal (physical) life, this device must be created, used and the next universe needs to emerge. But that's only half of the work! You then need to find a way to inject the plans for this great machine into this newly created universe so that the inhabitants of it can at some point in time construct it and "fire up the next cycle" - they need to do the same thing and the process needs to be repeated over and over ... but well, then you got it: ETERNAL LIFE ... from the universe's point of view.

Do you agree?

there cannot be eternal life of any way in our universe. there is no escape. the possible scenarios for our future are (in order of likelyness) :

- big freeze (the heat death of the universe. after a long period of time all particles eventually decay and are converted to radiation. black holes eventually radiate all their energy and disappear too. there is no difference in energy or entropy anywhere. so no energy or information can be transmitted anymore. any process that could sustain any form of life has stopped.) this is by far the most likely variant.

-big rip (the expansion of space time accellerates further and further until it rips everything apart. space expands so fast that the forces holding anythign together cannot work anymore (they work at light speed). at first galaxies are seperated, then the solar system, then the earth, then atoms. in the end it would take more than light speed to communicate from any point in the universe to any other. no physical process can take place, no information can be transmitted, no life can exist here.

a lot less likely:

-big crunch (the expansion of space slows and and is in the end overwhelmed by gravity. this would probably require decay of the universe's vacuum state to a lower energy, which we don't yet know is possible and would destroy everything in our universe right now). then the universe would collapse into a single point, and it either could stay like that forever or the whole thing could start again. we have no idea which one is more likely right now.

 

if it were true that creating a black hole creates another universe inside this, then the new universe would be lower in energy than the one we are now, so the "eternal life" would get smaller in every instance. also these child-universes would eventually also be destroyed by the processes above. before our own universe is. and of course, there is no way to travel from ours into a child-univese alive.

so no, i do not agree. but i find the science much weirder and more fascinating than this hypothesis here.

2 hours ago, RTP said:

...if you followed me so far, great ... now, to spin it a little further:

Can this already have happened?

if collapsing into a black hole creates a new smaller universe then yes: it could already have happened. and it would be more likely that we are living in such a thing than otherwise. alas, there is no way for us to know. we don't even know if our universe is finite or inifinite in size, and because light speed is the ultimate limit and space is expanding faster than that at huge distances we will most likely never know.

 

however there are serious physical ideas that would allow life to exist for all eternity in the universe, just not in our region of space. look up eternal inflation. the basic idea is that in its early days the universe was expanding much faster than it is now right here (that theory of inflation happened seems almost certain by now. ) but in eternal inflation the expansion has only slowed down in some isolated regions (called pocket universes, we are in one of those) while the rest continues to expand at an exponential rate. thus the there will be infinitely many more pocked universes like ours created in the future. but of course life is only possible in the pocket universes, the pocked universes all face the fate described above and there is no way to transmit anything from one pocket universe to another.

[RTP]

Hey - first of all: cool reply, thanks

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you'd need a physicist. a physician is a "hausarzt" ;).

My bad ... I need to do more in English ... doing my best 

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there is no way to transmit information to or from a black hole

Yeah, I would agree ... that's why it would be super difficult -- you need to make a "black hole" (or whatever) that then evolves into an universe like ours ... question is, can these factors in some way be determined during its creation - maybe they can, because we exist too, you'd just need to record every particle movement in the whole "huge blob" and replicate the process to achieve an exact copy. Maybe this can be done by "initiating the big bang in a certain way"? If this universe was created from outside, chances are that the structures and ways used to create it will probably way exceed its own specifications in capacity, meaning that it might indeed be possible that "they" (the creators) have the possibility to trace each particle movement ... maybe even easily: they could have made a bunch of universes and saw who of them can make the jump to self-evolve into new ones just like we do it with bacteria in petri dishes in numerous bio-labs around the planet...

I guess that makes it a certain assumption that "this has already happened" - meaning: this universe has been created from outside. And you're right, there is no way to know - or at least no way to prove.

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what makes you think that our universe has consciousness? or if it had consciousness that it would want anything, or want to prevent its death? fear of death is something that has evolved in our species. natural selection kills living things prematurely that don't take care to stay alive. if the universe itself was conscious it would not have undergone such a process and most likely would not see a need to preserve its life.

Whether the universe itself has consciousness is up to belief (it's not an unpopular thought however, as far as I have heard).
But, to borrow from solipsism ... I myself have a consciousness, therefore in this universe there exists at least one consciousness that seems to care about these things.
And as I don't wanna be superficial, I think there are many other consciousnesses too - such as the ones from my fellow humans, those from animals ... and maybe (likely?) also higher consciousnesses from higher evolved beings.
And yeah, spoken out loud, I would want to prevent the death of the universe. Because if the universe can "die" (however you define it - big freeze, big crush, big rip, big mac (aka "cardiac arrest")), it will not be eternal. And if life is not eternal -- it makes no sense ... quoting Anthony Rother's "Leben": "if [life] is limited in time anyway, then what sense does it make to be alive?" = "denn wenn es [=das Leben] sowieso zeitbegrenzt ist, was für einen Sinn macht es zu leben?"
I am more than zer0  

So there's already consciousness in the universe that does not want to die and, in my case, also does not want the universe to die - and be they linked or not, maybe it's justified to therefore speak of the "universe's consciousness" even if it had none?

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if it were true that creating a black hole creates another universe inside this, then the new universe would be lower in energy than the one we are now, so the "eternal life" would get smaller in every instance. also these child-universes would eventually also be destroyed by the processes above. before our own universe is. and of course, there is no way to travel from ours into a child-univese alive.

That worries me far more!
So we can not create the thing inside of our universe because then it itself will die alongside if the universe dies ... we need to escape outside and "light the fuse there". But how to do that? I thought that outside of this universe there is no possibility to "exist". Great ... but somebody has to do that...?
 

On 5/5/2019 at 6:31 PM, Padmapani said:

however there are serious physical ideas that would allow life to exist for all eternity in the universe, just not in our region of space. look up eternal inflation. the basic idea is that in its early days the universe was expanding much faster than it is now right here (that theory of inflation happened seems almost certain by now. ) but in eternal inflation the expansion has only slowed down in some isolated regions (called pocket universes, we are in one of those) while the rest continues to expand at an exponential rate. thus the there will be infinitely many more pocked universes like ours created in the future. but of course life is only possible in the pocket universes, the pocked universes all face the fate described above and there is no way to transmit anything from one pocket universe to another.

Thanks, I checked it out, that theory saves it  ... yeah really, it does ... it could be an explanation and I hope that is it...
I don't know but the thought of all this ending at some point of time, no matter how many trillion x trillion years away, horrifies me.
However, I have to confess, an eternal expansion is equally horrifying if you think about it. Even if you, by the power of mind, reduce this "space time expansion" to a mathematic number that just ever increases, and even reducing that to a steady mere "flow of an energy" ... it's not making me lose its terror the way it should ... it's like this hallucination of flying fast - bloddy f*kin fast - faster than you can imagine and still ever increasing, crossing not lightyears, but light-aeons in a fraction of a fraction of a second and the world shrinking indefinitely sometimes when I am falling asleep...

00:30 a.m., the perfect time to have a total mental freakout, isn't it?  

PS: I think I need to make a break from threads like this and come back to enjoy these discussions only in moderation, otherwise I'll really go crazy ... so don't wonder if I check back late next time  

[Padmapani]

14 hours ago, RTP said:

Hey - first of all: cool reply, thanks

when i finally see an occasion to put my cosmology knowledge to good use i cannot resist

14 hours ago, RTP said:

 

Yeah, I would agree ... that's why it would be super difficult -- you need to make a "black hole" (or whatever) that then evolves into an universe like ours ... question is, can these factors in some way be determined during its creation - maybe they can, because we exist too, you'd just need to record every particle movement in the whole "huge blob" and replicate the process to achieve an exact copy. Maybe this can be done by "initiating the big bang in a certain way"?

from our point of view black holes really have just the three properties mass, charge and rotation. we can only influece it by throwing more mass at it from certain angles.

recording every particle movement is impossible in our universe. quantum mecahnics (heisenberg's uncertainty principle) forbids this.

14 hours ago, RTP said:

I guess that makes it a certain assumption that "this has already happened" - meaning: this universe has been created from outside. And you're right, there is no way to know - or at least no way to prove.

Whether the universe itself has consciousness is up to belief (it's not an unpopular thought however, as far as I have heard).
But, to borrow from solipsism ... I myself have a consciousness, therefore in this universe there exists at least one consciousness that seems to care about these things.
And as I don't wanna be superficial, I think there are many other consciousnesses too - such as the ones from my fellow humans, those from animals ... and maybe (likely?) also higher consciousnesses from higher evolved beings.
And yeah, spoken out loud, I would want to prevent the death of the universe. Because if the universe can "die" (however you define it - big freeze, big crush, big rip, big mac (aka "cardiac arrest")), it will not be eternal. And if life is not eternal -- it makes no sense ... quoting Anthony Rother's "Leben": "if [life] is limited in time anyway, then what sense does it make to be alive?" = "denn wenn es [=das Leben] sowieso zeitbegrenzt ist, was für einen Sinn macht es zu leben?"
I am more than zer0  

just because we want it to make sense doesn't mean that it does make sense :). we've invented all sorts of gods and afterlife because we don't want to accept death. sadly (or luckily in case of most religions), that doesn't make any of them reality.

14 hours ago, RTP said:

Thanks, I checked it out, that theory saves it  ... yeah really, it does ... it could be an explanation and I hope that is it...
I don't know but the thought of all this ending at some point of time, no matter how many trillion x trillion years away, horrifies me.
However, I have to confess, an eternal expansion is equally horrifying if you think about it. Even if you, by the power of mind, reduce this "space time expansion" to a mathematic number that just ever increases, and even reducing that to a steady mere "flow of an energy" ... it's not making me lose its terror the way it should ... it's like this hallucination of flying fast - bloddy f*kin fast - faster than you can imagine and still ever increasing, crossing not lightyears, but light-aeons in a fraction of a fraction of a second and the world shrinking indefinitely sometimes when I am falling asleep...

00:30 a.m., the perfect time to have a total mental freakout, isn't it?  

PS: I think I need to make a break from threads like this and come back to enjoy these discussions only in moderation, otherwise I'll really go crazy ... so don't wonder if I check back late next time  

i also don't know if i like the thought of eternal inflation or not. yeah, physics gets pretty weird at times. sadly our brains are specialised in surviving on earth and reprducing rather than understanding the great scheme of things. even for quantum mechanics we cannot get any intuitive understanding of how it works; just by using mathematics we can calculate how things behave. for cosmology it gets even more far out…

[acid being]

On 5/5/2019 at 4:31 PM, Padmapani said:

however there are serious physical ideas that would allow life to exist for all eternity in the universe, just not in our region of space. look up eternal inflation.

 

On 5/6/2019 at 10:31 PM, RTP said:

Thanks, I checked it out, that theory saves it  ... yeah really, it does ... it could be an explanation and I hope that is it...

I don't know but the thought of all this ending at some point of time, no matter how many trillion x trillion years away, horrifies me.

Interesting stuff, this. There are other theories that could support consciousness carrying on, even if they're right about the universe ending up in heat death / Big Freeze. Look up Boltzmann brains. The idea is that if the universe remains in existence for eternity then eventually random quantum fluctuations in the vacuum of space will spontaneously create a thinking brain. I don't think many physicists believe in the theory but it does illustrate that eternity is long enough for all sorts of really strange things to possibly start happening, so maybe our current understanding of the universe will cease to apply.

Roger Penrose also came up with a model where (as I understand it) a new universe is born from each heat death, called Conformal cyclic cosmology or CCC.