Quaratine?

[Padmapani]

2 hours ago, Multi-Media said:

Wenn überhaupt gegen die Zusatzstoffe (WTF)

Das Risiko eines anaphylaktischen Schocks ist bei einer Grippeimpfung viel höher (really?)

(! means in English the C-vax was ready BEFORE C existed, do you need to know more) Corona überhaupt existierte. Das lag nach SARS in der Schublade (REALLY? see what I said above, earlier "epidemics" like "SARS lolol)

(Perhaps but for Biotech and DNA companies!) 

(REALLY? These giant (=Riese) companies do not care about the money, but for their prestige.... so NOT for the health of the people but their PRESTIGE (or image), whowww

 

mrna vaccines contain pretty much no additives compared to your usual inactivated vaccine. you only have the mrna itself and the lipids to make up the droplet containing the mrna. typical vaccines contain a whole range of additives to attract immune cells. otherwise you'd get next to no reaction from the body.

yep. it's just that we see comparatively many allergic reactions (still a very small number) now, because the people who get allergic reactions are allergic against polyethylene glycol instead of chicken protein. in your daily life you do not notice a PEG allergy, but you do notice a chicken protein allergy, so the affected people will usually know they cannot get the vaccine in case of the flu shot.

when a new disease appears (SARS) you get people working on vaccines. when a very similar disease (COVID) appears a decade later you do not need to modify much to get a working one for the new disease. i don't see any point here. i'd rather be shocked if it was any different. that's how science works.

not really. there are many large biotech companies whose profits eclipse when can be earned with covid vaccines by far. if you mean small biotech startups like moderna or biontech, well duh, of course companies that haven't yet had any medicine approved but focus on exactly the technology that's applicable here will make most of their profits from these vaccines. so no surprise here either.

there isn't very much money to be made from these vaccines sold at imho extremely low prices. a dose of any covid vaccine costs somewhere around 10€. a dose of your typical pneumonia vaccine costs 100€. i leave the calculation of the profit margins to yourself.
the managers of such companies do neither care about the health of the people, nor about the prestige nor the profits directly. they care about creating value for the shareholders, because that's their job and if they don't they're fired (and don't profit personally from their stock options). so they'll do whatever it takes to get to stock price up and make a nice dividend for shareholders. and we do see stocks are going straight up for the companies involed in vaccine production. it's not so much about the profit they're making (of course they do profit, but not much they can do here if they have 20 competitors selling the vaccine dirt cheap) but more about the attention they get for being part of the solution to the crisis the world is in as well right now as proving they have the technology for easy development and production of highly effective future vaccines (where a lot more money can be made).

[Padmapani]

3 hours ago, Multi-Media said:

Personal note, I have not gotten any vax in the last 12-13 years or so, I did not get a serious flu or something simmilar at all. While I remember when I was younger I got shots which as a child is partly mandatory anyway. And I was often sick when I was younger also stomach problems etc. Ok, I also did not eat the healthiest ways. My personal conclusion is vax seem to more promote illness - one can of course totally have other experiences but that is mine. Well if one looks at incridients of vaxxes there is eg. alluminium and it is rumored something with aborted fetuses (I hope from animals) this ofc may be really a bad conspiracy theory admitted.

personally, i got all the usual shots as a child, and i still get every vaccine that's recommended plus all those extra vaccines available for diseases one might encounter when travelling the world. in the past i was often sick but not anymore. this is what having an adult immune system that has already gotten lots of exposure to various germs looks like. if you want to decrease your chances of catching a cold even further, you only have to work in healthcare for a few years. exposure to pathogens (it doesn't matter if by sickness or vaccine) grants immunity.

the amount of the additives you find in vaccines is miniscule compared to the amounts you ingest in your daily life anyway. you'll get more aluminium in your daily diet (and also by using deo spray) than in any vaccine, a hundred of times more mercury from eating a single saltwater fish then you'd get from a vaccine and also a lot more formaldehyde from sitting in a room containing cheap furniture (or cigarette smoke) than from a vaccine. warning about the "risks" of these additives in vaccines is exactly the same as warning a person that they might get drunk from the little amount of ethyl alcohol that exists in every apple when said person is already an alcoholic that drinks a litre of vodka every day. it's completely nonsensical to anyone with a little knowledge in chemistry.

[RTP]

On 2/7/2021 at 12:38 AM, Multi-Media said:

Surprised to find a nice and mostly civil discussion about that topic.

I celebrate that. So far, this conversation is the only one I know that goes on for the longest time without any serious escalation ... and although it doesn't sound like it, that's intended as a compliment

I have found my own "idea" concerning the vaccine and what I wanna do ... I'll just try as much as I can to get a traditional vaccine without mRNA. My "fear" of the mRNA vaccine is entirely gut-based and I have no proof - but I am of two opinions: first = the fear, that if my own cells start to produce a particle of a "known enemy" they might go havoc and second = the fact that you just are forced to make antibodies against a tiny spike protein and not the whole virus ... it's like "making a car known by the fact that it has halogen lights" ... what if one with xenon beams comes along, that one won't be classified as a car then?
I'd be greatly interested in getting an expert explanation as a chance to know this more and maybe even prove me otherwise ... but so far I had no success, even directly wrote to Dr. Winfried Pickl at the MedUni Vienna (who is researching cellular immune responses of Covid "with his team"), but got no reply

I have looked up a bit more on companies that produce a traditional vaccine, without mRNA or vector, just plain old inactivated Coronaviruses ... and there's "Sinovac" - which is a chinese company = quite unlikely that they get approved here in the EU - and "Valneva" - who are in the EU, but they are currently only doing studies in the UK and there is no chance to get into this program as an Austrian resident.

I kinda hope that they sh*t around for so long with all the current vaccination issues (I trust in stupidity of government, that's the only thing that hasn't let me down yet), that one of these traditional vaccines gets approved by the time I am "urged" to get a dose ... by then, I'll also have the, like, 10-20€ to pay for it myself (if it was really that cheap, I actually don't believe it ).

[Padmapani]

2 hours ago, RTP said:

I have found my own "idea" concerning the vaccine and what I wanna do ... I'll just try as much as I can to get a traditional vaccine without mRNA. My "fear" of the mRNA vaccine is entirely gut-based and I have no proof - but I am of two opinions: first = the fear, that if my own cells start to produce a particle of a "known enemy" they might go havoc and second = the fact that you just are forced to make antibodies against a tiny spike protein and not the whole virus ... it's like "making a car known by the fact that it has halogen lights" ... what if one with xenon beams comes along, that one won't be classified as a car then?
I'd be greatly interested in getting an expert explanation as a chance to know this more and maybe even prove me otherwise ... but so far I had no success, even directly wrote to Dr. Winfried Pickl at the MedUni Vienna (who is researching cellular immune responses of Covid "with his team"), but got no reply

I have looked up a bit more on companies that produce a traditional vaccine, without mRNA or vector, just plain old inactivated Coronaviruses ... and there's "Sinovac" - which is a chinese company = quite unlikely that they get approved here in the EU - and "Valneva" - who are in the EU, but they are currently only doing studies in the UK and there is no chance to get into this program as an Austrian resident.

I kinda hope that they sh*t around for so long with all the current vaccination issues (I trust in stupidity of government, that's the only thing that hasn't let me down yet), that one of these traditional vaccines gets approved by the time I am "urged" to get a dose ... by then, I'll also have the, like, 10-20€ to pay for it myself (if it was really that cheap, I actually don't believe it ).

i try to get any mrna vaccine i can. now with the studies out and millions vaccinated we know they are safe and more effective than the competition. this together with being easier and faster to produce makes them the vaccines of the future. (if anyone's interested why we get mrna vaccines just now this scishow video explains it in simple layman terms.)

i acutally declined the bullshit astra zeneca vaccine today. if i can get biontech or moderna in two months i have better protection sooner than if i get astra today (i wonder how astra zeneca even got their study that's riddled with sloppy statistics, widely varying study protocols between subject groups and seemingly arbitrary choice of what's included in what metric published in any journal). also even though astra seems to convert most serious cases to mild cases that isn't much help against long covid, which is my main worry.

with an mrna vaccine your cells start producing parts of the enemy just as when you get a viral infection. the main difference is that it's not the whole virus so it cannot replicate and infect more tissues (the virus can spread to and kill nerve cells, endothelial cells in your blood vessels, heart muscle cells, etc. while the vaccine almost exclusively gets to the muscle its injected in and the relevant immune cells).

the spike protein is what sticks out of the virus and is the main target for antibody production in this case anyway. the only other accessible target is the nucleocapsid protein which sits below the spike on the virus and as we now know isn't responsible for immunity in most people (the exact targets on the virus that are recognised by the immune system depend on which individual immune cells your body has produced and come into contact with the viral proteins). iirc >80% of antibodies people produce bind to some spot on the spike protein, and even there around 50% (again iirc) bind the receptor binding domein of the spike protein.

but if you're looking for a "taditional" vaccine novavax is your best bet. it's an inactivated vaccine but the study shows a very high efficacy. definitely something i'd also happily take if i happen to get the chance before biontech/moderna. the sinovac vaccine had promising preliminary data from the early days of their phase 3 study, but in the end that didn't hold up. 50% efficacy isn't much to brag about when multiple competetors have 90% or above.

oh yeah, the stupidity of the government is something you can always count on. i can't wait for the day when i can finally leave this sorry excuse for a country again. having to stay here for the whole winter instead of spending at least a month in a civilised place where they base their decisions on facts rather than the interests of demented province politicians (or their friends) or on what they expect will appeal to the gut feeling of the idiotic masses really gets on my nerves.

[astralprojection]

 

 

 

 

 

[RTP]

Now that is odd...

...I could have sworn that I already replied to this topic again

Maybe the Covid mafia has deleted my post because it contained the cure for humanity?
Nah I'm not gonna pretend to be that good ... but hear me out on it:

Thanks @Padmapani for the mentioning of NOVAVAX, I didn't know what that was and I read up on it ... it's not a traditional vaccine, but it has no mRNA. They build a microparticle only consisting of Coronavirus spikes. Clever! That, however, again has the "danger" that the body doesn't see the whole virus...

But I think I have the solution. (I kind of want to do this now, "for fun" (if safe for my health) - to not get an mRNA or vector vaccine.)

The best bet could be to initially immunize with NOVAVAX against the spikes - and THEN as an "afterstrike", weeks later, inject ordinary deactivated Covid-19 viruses, repeatedly at best (every few weeks or months) and also with mutations (why not) ... the spikes will attract immune cells because these cells have been pre-trained by the initial NOVAVAX immunization and the "aftershots" of plain inactivated Coronaviruses will keep the immune cells occupied so that immunity stays up and they also can be used as an "update to the latest mutated version" = like with the flu vac every year...

... wouldn't that be it?

Ofc you can do that scheme with the BioNtech one as an initial immunization too ... but I wanna do it without mRNA or vector

[Padmapani]

On 2/16/2021 at 11:04 PM, RTP said:

... wouldn't that be it?

i don't think we'll se a "traditional" inactivated vaccine here any time soon. and if we do it's probably not going to be too effective. the hard part about making an inactivated vacccine is getting the immune system to do much (using all kinds of additives to provoke some reaction) and apparently the technique used by novavax is pretty effective compared to more traditional ones.

for the booster for south african or brazilian variants the key is probably for them to be available soon enough (we hear enough reports of new waves in regions that had previously reached herd immunity to the original variant). now with the situation in tyrol and the incompetence of our government i'm not sure if we have enough time for anything to come to the market. still, due to their advantage in development time mrna vaccines will again be first. novavax are already working on a booster for the new variants too, but they'll probably take 2-4 months longer until it will eventually be available.

[Frontier Psychiatrist]

Israel is done with COVID-19 and almost all the restrictions were lifted (except for the incoming travellers without vaccination).

I myself got vaccinated twice (Pfizer/BioNTech) just about when I was able to get an appointment, which is beginning of March. 

Little by little we start seeing parties in weekends both indoors and outdoors. Hope ya'll don't eat that conspiracy bullshit about vaccinations. They undoubtedly work and was injected in hundreds of Millions already. So wherever you are, get jabbed ASAP and let this party rolling

[Tsotsi]

On 2/17/2021 at 9:04 AM, RTP said:

But I think I have the solution. (I kind of want to do this now, "for fun" (if safe for my health) - to not get an mRNA or vector vaccine.)

The best bet could be to initially immunize with NOVAVAX against the spikes - and THEN as an "afterstrike", weeks later, inject ordinary deactivated Covid-19 viruses, repeatedly at best (every few weeks or months) and also with mutations (why not) ... the spikes will attract immune cells because these cells have been pre-trained by the initial NOVAVAX immunization and the "aftershots" of plain inactivated Coronaviruses will keep the immune cells occupied so that immunity stays up and they also can be used as an "update to the latest mutated version" = like with the flu vac every year...

... wouldn't that be it?

Fuck me. We have a hard enough time trying to convince people to eat salad.

[psychedelic chipmunk]

Getting first shot of Pfizer next week.

[Penzoline]

I guess this omicron crap is spreading like wildfire in Finland now. My inner circle of friends have now begun getting this and we basically avoided the thing for the whole 2 years.

I got so fucking scared when I found out with home-test that I have it but for now it's just been 2 days of fever + annoying as all hell coughing and really woozy feeling in the head.

Can't recommend. 0/10.

The media made it seem like it's practically non-existent now, because of the whole other crisis. Maybe 2023 will be ok? If we're all still alive at that point I mean.

[RTP]

@Penzoline I wish you all the best and get well soon!
If you are worried, try to get a friend to buy you an oximeter. These are very useful. My doctor said, if it falls below 90, call a medic and talk to them what to do. I still have it and it was a good investment, it can also measure pulse.
A Zinc supplement (Zinc bisglycinate) together with Vitamin C and also a Vitamin D supplement has helped me a lot too (just dose it wisely).
Other than that, just stay calm, drink lots of fluids and it should be alright very likely, fingers crossed! Several people in my extended contacts have caught Omicron, cases are going crazy here in Austria ... but fortunately none of them who got sick (with symptoms) have had significant problems, the worst being fever and cough and a general hammered-ness just as you mention.

I had Alpha, which was shit. I have never coughed up blood in my life ever before - and also (fortunately) not again till now. I don't wish that to anyone.

Apart from that ... I have learned: it is generally seems to be less dangerous if the media talks about it - than when the media does NOT talk about it
Cases going through the roof in my country since they stopped talking about it extensively. Coincidence?
Yet they opened All Everything here recently ... clubs, bars, restaurants ... I don't know if it will be so good ... but I predict: summer will be better. No one knows what autumn will bring...

[Penzoline]

Yeah I remember you got it really early on. I also figured the original variants were horrendeous, so I'm "lucky" to get the latest variant - though some of my friends who've gotten the new one still have symptoms months later. Mostly general fatigue and heart rate rising easier than before. Also most talked about losing sense of taste, but I didn't have that. Yours was really bad though, I'm glad you survived that crap. How long did it take for all the symptoms to alleviate?

Been taking zinc and avoiding my favourite.. ahem, beverages. Even if it doesn't help, at least placebo helps.

I think the omicron is really spreading like crazy everywhere. They also opened bars and everything over here, but aren't really talking about the infections. Then again the infections aren't even being monitored anymore, so it's hard for media to say we have 100's or 1000's of infections per week when they don't even count for statistics anymore.

 

25 minutes ago, RTP said:

@Penzoline a general hammered-ness

Exactly! This is the word I was looking for

[Veracohr]

Hey Penzo, are you vaccinated? I got it in October but it wasn’t terrible, which I attribute to the vaccine. Don’t know what variant it was though; Omicron didn’t catch on in the US until December I think, so either it was Delta or one of the lingering older ones.

 

In my region the Omicron curve was steeply up & steeply down, and it was ‘over’ relatively quickly. Good luck!

[Penzoline]

18 hours ago, Veracohr said:

Hey Penzo, are you vaccinated? I got it in October but it wasn’t terrible, which I attribute to the vaccine. Don’t know what variant it was though; Omicron didn’t catch on in the US until December I think, so either it was Delta or one of the lingering older ones.

 

In my region the Omicron curve was steeply up & steeply down, and it was ‘over’ relatively quickly. Good luck!

I got 2 vaccinations. Last one was like september or something. I didn't take a 3rd even though I could have, kinda feel bad about that decision now.

Feeling better now, but my heads all foggy and the cough is quite persistent.

Wow it took a while for omicron to land on the US.

 

[RTP]

On 3/25/2022 at 10:48 PM, Penzoline said:

How long did it take for all the symptoms to alleviate?

Well, the sickness itself had me for easily six weeks (I don't know how long exactly though, because I was previously ill and then caught it, but there are also opinions, that it was all Covid from the start ... then it's maybe eight weeks), the period with the gasping for air in the night was a week or two ... from the positive test on, it didn't take that long till I felt better ... but that was thanks to a bronchodilatator -- interestingly, these only caught on "big time" some months after that where the media was full of articles about these, I remember that well because I was always smiling when seeing these articles, because I already got that months ago.

After the six weeks of sickness in total, the symptoms were subdued and got better, but I can not say I percieve them fully gone after that. It kinda came back in waves, so to say ... maybe flashbacks is the better term? It's very difficult to explain. I do not feel like I got "long covid", thank god, but I fully understand it when people say they have it. I think I might have a little taste of that mechanism, but it didn't break out...

I have the theory that these flashbacks are recurring contact with the pathogen ... "micro reinfections" ... my system knows how to deal with it, but it's a kind of alert signal or a perception, that the production of antibodies is commencing again. Can it be? I don't know. It doesn't sound that illogical, because the body normally doesn't make them, levels drop after exposition - maybe that's what it is.

It still has me every now and then that I get anxious.

The sickness is only half of my story though, here's more - most of which I spared you as the debate about vaccines was so heated up everywhere, but I think now is a good time to tell it:

I got vaccinated twice after that - one Pfizer dose for immunity (instead of two for people who haven't had Covid before), one booster just recently with Novavax.
The Pfizer fucked me up pretty good. My face went numb, it was hard to speak, I could not form the mouth to speak the words. My mother wanted to call the emergency services, but I resisted with all mental force that I had, fearing that exposition to real Covid in the Hospital would kill me because vax and real germs at the same time are overkill...
I swore NEVER to get Pfizer again! I had to promise it to something that I hallucinated while lying in these feverish dreams after the vaccination, I dreamt that something visited me and said to me "ok I will make it go away but you must NEVER do that again" ... well, so it was.
My doctor only reassured me follwing this plan, because he practically shrugged off the shit I went through and said it was all "fairly normal adverse effects, nothing to worry about" and "he only vaccinates with Pfizer and I have to go elsewhere if I want a different one". After that talk, I realized I had to do it on my own anyway and promptly extended that promise to "no mRNA ever again"...
Problem is, that the government or whoever responsible took so extraordinarily long to make an alternative for Pfizer! There's plenty from Sinovac, but they are not authorized here ... and not just diffamed by the press, but real doctors dying from Covid who got vaxxed with it ... it's no good for me, I figured. What else is there? VALNEVA, my favourite, is still NOT released. The only other non-MRNA candidate, Novavax, was promised already last year, but took AGES until it came to Austria. There was delays with the delivery. I even wrote to the health minister about it, because I feared the end of my "vaccinated" status, but never got a reply until now (now we have a different health minister)...
Well, guess what, the fuckers in the government did NOT speed up the Novavax delivery, but instead cancelled my green pass so I became officially UNVAXXED at the start of Febuary and could not leave the house except for groceries and this is no joke. I was so furious. In addition to that, my employer made it mandatory that you only can work when having a green pass. It was all just a slap in the face after all I've been through...
I was not posting much in that time, in fact I was absent a lot. I fled my home, didn't care about my girlfriend, I couldn't take it mentally anymore, I took refuge in a student accommodation charging me 750 EUR a month for a 20 square meter box full of white furniture, that made the room glow in bright sunlight with its white walls as the morning sun rose over the Vienna Prater = a huge park that we have in this town ... view was spectacular from the large full wall-size window, there were no buildings in front of my window up to the horizon. I only had an old notebook with me which I promised not to use for internet, but to write the crap out of it in my spare time (I want to write a little novel, but it's all in German). The main achievement is, however, that I made nobody at work notice it and only my parents knew. Those were the only people I visited in that time. This way I got through two months, but the price was just ridiculous, so I moved out of there after these two months.
But with March, better times came. The Novavax vaccine became available, I got it after a few days, thinking I'd avoid the crowds, but nobody was giving a fuck anyway. The doctor who made the pre-vaccination check felt to me like the first sane doctor ever (besides my lung specialist - he is the best) ... he said yes, he has heard about these effects with Pfizer, he warned me though that what I was about to do was off-label and they wouldn't be responsible for any damage. I didn't care, the Novavax came in - while the guy giving me the vaccine happily admitting that he's still waiting for Valneva ... I said "that's great buddy, I'll see ya then at the Valneva Booster!", sat for 20 minutes and immediately afterwards took an e-scooter who stood there at the back exit of the vax center, just like the Universe had placed it for me and I drove away pointlessly into the canyons in between the skyscrapers, because what would lay ahead for me, I pictured, could only be bright future-
Well, not completely, because I ditched the scooter somewhere as the credit ran out and I had to walk to the subway and BOY did I became dizzy during that walk, it felt like my heart was really badly working ... and so it did, for about three more days and I got a fever and had to lie down and felt super bad. Got novavax'd on Saturday, Sunday was completely TILT, Monday was a complete blur, I think I sat in some work meetings from HO, hunched over the keyboard and puking threads of saliva into a bucket below me because I was really really bad ... but nowhere near as bad as Pfizer, I kept saying to myself. And so came Tuesday where I could move about again and then it got better.
And what a cool coincidence that my playlist now is at Eric Prydz - Generate because after this wall of text I just feel like this song, so relieved and well, I thanbk you all if you read this far, you are awesome

Lots of <3 and cheers
RTP