Specific styles/periods you miss in psytrance

[Ormion]

I'm talking about either styles that are no more (tech trance,psy techno of 1999-2001) or specific periods of a style like early period of full on or something.

Mine are:

-Old school Goa. Duh! New school can't fill the void, sorry.

 

-Golden period of South African psy 2003-2007. By far my favourite period of post 2000 psytrance. Every month you've got a different album or compilation by Timecode and Nexus Media plus other labels like MMD or Afrogalactic. And most of them being absolutely fantastic.

 

-Early Goa Full On blend. I'm talking about 1998-2000 period where artists start to make Goa more full on-ish, but still being psychedelic and crazy. Artists like Xerox & Freeman or early 3D Vision (Talamasca, Absolum, Mael), Virtuart, Passenger etc.

That's a style I don't think we'll ever get back.

 

What about you?

[Oopie]

Sure! 

1) Hallucinogen sound of the 90s. Does that need further explanation?

2) Yahel-esque stuff he did in the beginning of his career around 2000. Clubby goa with borderline cheesy melodies, he carried such class in his melody work one is hard to reach that. 

3) Tech-trance that came out around y2k. Tracks such as 'Atmos - The Only Process', 'X-Dream - Thorazin' or 'Etnica - Andromeda'. Oh boy, would it be nice to hear more bangers like that, it's just not the fashion anymore! 

[astralprojection]

The fullon sound in the early 2000s. Which is ironic cause that's what I used to diss back in the day. 

But stuff like 

 

From 2002. I don't know where I can find something modern that is similar to this. 

[Padmapani]

15 minutes ago, astralprojection said:

The fullon sound in the early 2000s. Which is ironic cause that's what I used to diss back in the day. 

But stuff like 

 

From 2002. I don't know where I can find something modern that is similar to this. 

that track is in the playlist currently running in my car

i started out a little later, so i only dissed the sort of fullon that had basslines changing according to the chord progression, thinking it was way too cheesy for psy. little did i know what we were going to see from electro sun and the like a few years later  

[Padmapani]

On 7/25/2020 at 12:38 PM, Oopie said:

Tracks such as 'Atmos - The Only Process', 

maybe it's going back into fashion soon. at least there's a recent remix of it that captures the essence of the track pretty well (even though it's from captain hook).

 

[recursion loop]

6 hours ago, Padmapani said:

i only dissed the sort of fullon that had basslines changing according to the chord progression, thinking it was way too cheesy for psy

Doesn't it actually depend on the chord progression itself? I think a harmonic minor progression, especially with some chromatic elements like a diminished 5th will sound anything but cheesy (like some SA twillight for example) 

 

As I said many times, I sorely miss melodic fullon, circa 2006 (Protoculture - Circadians) till 2013 (U-Recken - A Light at the End of The World). I admit that this subgenre/period is responsible for some of the most appaling cheese but also for some of the finest melodic psy ever made (Digicult, Chromosome, Mr Peculiar, Hyperion, Galactika, U-Recken and many others). And even the downright cheesy stuff form that period (Ananda Shake, Intersys, Sytem Nipel, Electro Sun, Indra) is somehow more likeable than Vini Vici or Berg and similar.

 

I also think the progressive from that period sounded more diverse and overall more interesting than today, the albums like Andromeda - Sensations, Vibrasphere - Archipelago, Suntree - Inside, Freq - Strange Attractors, E-Clip - Shuma - they don't have much in common except lower bpm and overall less intense sound but something sets them apart from modern cookie-cutter prog.

[technosomy]

i miss that no holds barred banging rhino and transient psychedelia mid to late 90's
and that crazy australian parallel suomisaundi universe sound (psy-harmonics) etc

 

[astralprojection]

5 hours ago, Padmapani said:

that track is in the playlist currently running in my car

i started out a little later, so i only dissed the sort of fullon that had basslines changing according to the chord progression, thinking it was way too cheesy for psy. little did i know what we were going to see from electro sun and the like a few years later  

Well maybe I spoke to soon, I didn't really diss the fullon, but generally I dissed most psy around that time cause I was starved for goa. Everything was just progressive. The fullon I actually did like even back then. 

 

Ah yes the electric universe style. I too find that to be a little over the top. Just have the bassline on the fundamental and jump around a bit.. Why shift the entire bassline each time  (silicon sound for example did this masterfully) 

But sometimes it works out great, so I won't say it's bad or anything. Peak for example. Albeit that's also one of my favorite cheese examples.. :p 

 

[astralprojection]

6 hours ago, recursion loop said:

Doesn't it actually depend on the chord progression itself? I think a harmonic minor progression, especially with some chromatic elements like a diminished 5th will sound anything but cheesy (like some SA twillight for example)

yes youre right. i think both me and padi spoke kinda generally. ofc theres tons of exceptions

[Padmapani]

8 hours ago, recursion loop said:

Doesn't it actually depend on the chord progression itself? I think a harmonic minor progression, especially with some chromatic elements like a diminished 5th will sound anything but cheesy (like some SA twillight for example) 

 

I also think the progressive from that period sounded more diverse and overall more interesting than today, the albums like Andromeda - Sensations, Vibrasphere - Archipelago, Suntree - Inside, Freq - Strange Attractors, E-Clip - Shuma - they don't have much in common except lower bpm and overall less intense sound but something sets them apart from modern cookie-cutter prog.

 

5 hours ago, astralprojection said:

Ah yes the electric universe style. I too find that to be a little over the top. Just have the bassline on the fundamental and jump around a bit.. Why shift the entire bassline each time  (silicon sound for example did this masterfully) 

But sometimes it works out great, so I won't say it's bad or anything. Peak for example. Albeit that's also one of my favorite cheese examples.. :p 

 

 

i was coming from freetekno back than. if you're used to having just a fat kick playing at 180bpm with a few weird sounds on top you have a different perspective. my cheese threshold was way lower back then.

i was at the time looking for sound like talamasca - leo, but music like astrix - day dream was fresh and new and played everywhere. for most tracks i liked the first half but couldn't stand the climax at the end

nowadays i have no problem with electric universe - peak (though it's still not among my favourites), but i would have hated it then

i do agree on that point about progressive. just listened to the sensations album the other day and it's really a gem. most new progressive doesn't come close.

[recursion loop]

59 minutes ago, Padmapani said:

for most tracks i liked the first half but couldn't stand the climax at the end

I came to psytrance from commercial trance, so I loved the massive melodic climaxes first then grew to like other parts of these fullon tracks.  

 

i still can't comprehend how the question "whether keychanges are admissible in psytrance" is really a thing. It's like "are men allowed to weak pink shirts" or similar. When the melody calls for a key change, why not? It doen't make the track any less psy as such, and the absence of key changes won't make it any more psy.

 

All in all, when the question "isn't it cheesy" comes into play, it's guaranteed that all the fun will soon go away, be it psytrance, or True Norvegian Black Metal or any other genre that pretends to be underground or extreme.

[recursion loop]

13 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

One contributing factor I think to why keychanges in the bass aren't as common as well (besides stylistic preferences), is because it can fuck up the mix and requires a lot more EQ work to get it to work with the kick drum. Since all of a sudden the bassline is moving around all over the frequency spectrum.  So that nice boost you gave the bass at first needs to be automated sometimes to follow the bass peaks. Or one might need to make the boost wider.

Yes, that's really a thing but it somewhat depends on the bassline style. What I call "modern" full-on/proggy bassline (like basically everyone at Dacru, Digital Om, Tech Safari, Iono etc is using) requires very precise phase aligment between the kick and the bass and also surgical equing depending on the harmonic frequences. Each time you change the key you need to do that again. Basically in this scenario I have separate mixer channels for each bassline note - typically 3 or 4 per a track suffice, my harmonies aren't as complex as Infected Mushroom or Terrafractyl, but even that takes quite a bit of extra work 

 

Oldschool fullon basslines with octave jumps are less rigid, no problems with transposing them along with the chord changes or even making them play their own melody

[astralprojection]

12 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

So that nice boost you gave the bass at first needs to be automated sometimes to follow the bass peaks. Or one might need to make the boost wider.

That's genius.. Automating the eq to follow the key changes. I guess the only other way would be have a different channel for each key change and eq separately. 

 

Wishful sinful is a great example to me, regarding having bassline jump around instead of full key changes. But maybe that one is slightly too jumpy. 

[recursion loop]

9 minutes ago, astralprojection said:

Automating the eq to follow the key changes

In this case I'd be afraid of potential phase issues. Maybe it's manageable but for me it's easier just to bounce few bassline notes with their own processing chains.

[astralprojection]

Yes that's very true. Didn't think of that. It's probably still best to render down the eq on each different part. 

[Padmapani]

2 hours ago, recursion loop said:

In this case I'd be afraid of potential phase issues. Maybe it's manageable but for me it's easier just to bounce few bassline notes with their own processing chains.

not only phase issues. but it'd be a lot more work and much more prone to error. even when doing a typical "jumpy" fullon bassline that doesn't change with the chords i use 3-4 channels with different eq for each note. that'd be pretty much impossible with automation.

[astralprojection]

And let's not forget the golden rule. If it sounds good you're doing it right

[astralprojection]

back on topic i also really miss the progressive stuff from 2003 and forward; like Vibrasphere. Like already mentioned, that style of progressive cannot really be beaten or at least- let me rephrase, i have not yet heard anything that has. 

Spirallianz was extremely popular here back then, and that was one example we used to toss around when dissing the current state of psytrance while crying about pleadians and astral  Yes we were very childish about the matter.

The first album that did start to turn me around, was i think Vibrasphere - Lime Structure; although i didnt listen to it until 05-06. Then I was sold. but i suppose it took a few years to accept that old school goa was dead, and learn to appreciate what was avaliable. 

 

[recursion loop]

2 hours ago, Padmapani said:

even when doing a typical "jumpy" fullon bassline

For these I somehow manage to get by with just one synth channel, using broadband cuts and boosts and trying to find a phase sweet spot so that the phase wouldn't be completely off at any of the notes. Filter keytracking also helps getting consistent sound across different  notes. 

 

[astralprojection]

On 7/28/2020 at 11:25 AM, Padmapani said:

maybe it's going back into fashion soon. at least there's a recent remix of it that captures the essence of the track pretty well (even though it's from captain hook).

 

damn, that was nice!! he is really good at truly remixing an artists style I must say. He did very well with Hallucinogen too, even if that wasnt really a remix, it kinda was.

edit: except i didnt think the 303 fit at all. but other than that it is really good.

 

[Padmapani]

3 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

 Btw this got me curious, so on your DAW's mixer, do you have several channels for each note of the bassline? Or do you route them all to a group channel/bus?  

i have one channel per note of the bassline (sometimes plus extra-channels for notes overlapping with the kick) all routed to one bass bus, which is then routed to the knb bus.

1 hour ago, recursion loop said:

For these I somehow manage to get by with just one synth channel, using broadband cuts and boosts and trying to find a phase sweet spot so that the phase wouldn't be completely off at any of the notes. Filter keytracking also helps getting consistent sound across different  notes. 

i often do a boost at the second harmonic and a cut at the fifth on the bassline. if the notes change these eq bands are off and the sound isn't as clean. thanks for mentioning keytracking. i haven't really thought about that before for the bassline.

[Padmapani]

1 hour ago, astralprojection said:

damn, that was nice!! he is really good at truly remixing an artists style I must say. He did very well with Hallucinogen too, even if that wasnt really a remix, it kinda was.

edit: except i didnt think the 303 fit at all. but other than that it is really good.

 

maybe that because he's he is good technically but usually just making boring empty track that don't have much style of their own, so the original style shines through in every remix. 

agreed. the acidline was better in the original.

[recursion loop]

11 minutes ago, Padmapani said:

i have one channel per note of the bassline (sometimes plus extra-channels for notes overlapping with the kick) all routed to one bass bus, which is then routed to the knb bus.

I routinely do the same thing, also boosting/cutting harmonics in similar manner as you said - but that's for the bassline that doesn't envisage many key changes and especially if bpm is 140 or below. Multi-note basslines with octave jumps and key changes at faster tempos (like 145 bpm) don't really need that. 

[Padmapani]

Just now, recursion loop said:

I routinely do the same thing, also boosting/cutting harmonics in similar manner as you said - but that's for the bassline that doesn't envisage many key changes and especially if bpm is 140 or below. Multi-note bassline with octave jumps and key changes at faster tempos (like 145 bpm).don't really need that. 

i still do it with basslines with octave jumps at 150 bpm

[recursion loop]

Just now, Padmapani said:

still do it with basslines with octave jumps at 150 bpm

Maniac!