Help make MDMA a medicine

[Trolsk]

Hi all!

This is kind of off topic, but it's also kind of on topic, but most important, this could be a major breakthrough so please contribute if you can afford:

Quote

 

MAPS has until September 10 to raise $10 million in donations and multi-year pledges in order to unlock a $10 million challenge pledge. This, combined with $10 million already committed, will complete the $30 million Capstone Campaign. This will provide the funds needed to complete the studies required for FDA approval of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and bring this much-needed treatment to patients. Learn more by listening to the 6/12 episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, which features an interview with MAPS Founder and Executive Director, Rick Doblin, Ph.D.

How Your Donation Will Help

FDA approval of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD could help millions of people who are suffering from trauma. A long-term follow-up study published in June 2020 demonstrated that 67% of the study volunteers (N=91) who had PTSD for an average duration of 17.8 years were still in remission and no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis at least 12-months following the completion of their treatment.

 

Click here if you want to contribute or if you want to know more: https://capstone.maps.org/

And listen to Tim Ferris' interview with Rick Doblin. The Tim Ferris podcast is available at Spotify, among others.

[RTP]

Nah, I think it's off topic - I'll kindly move the thread there.

You should found a cryptotoken for this. MDMA would also make the perfect abbreviation for a crypto. Maybe make an ICO and let investors profit on the outcome = profit payed out per token? Or was that a greedy statement to you - if so, think twice: I think it would be the fairest move, because you can also make ordinary people benefit from the profit and not just pharmaceutical companies ... ?

[technosomy]

and it's the pharmaceuticals who will always win
look at the medical marijuana industry, in canada it's on the brink of colapse, and USA not far off
not to mention the stuff they selling is highly toxic, and destroying all the natural strains
mdma is great for people with conditions especially depression, as are mushrooms but prob again is what they will put in it, and from what source
naturally occuring safrol or camphor etc is great, but the methlamine and others they will use not so good

[astralprojection]

i wouldnt want mdma to be a medicine; i think it doesnt have any use. the effect feels very "chemical" and "fake" and the comedown would probably spiral these people down even further.

edit: i think psilocybin would be a better bet for a true medicine. it doesnt feel fake at all, has a very natural "mother earth" type of feel to it - where you can really find progress. and no comedowns. no obvious alterations to normal brain function (neurotransmitters)

ofc i wouldnt want it to be freely avaliable, it can do damage on its own in terms of panic/anxiety (which id still say is rare) - but i think this could be researched further and if done in a very controlled setting could have much more use for these PTSD patients, then say MDMA that has a very distinct feel and its pretty much completely useless. you just feel like shit afterwards and you didnt learn anything.

[astralprojection]

6 minutes ago, AstralSphinx said:

Yeah good point. And besides I'm always very sceptical to all these "sign up for this, sign up for that petition, donate money whatever" Could be some pyramid scheme for all I know. These days anything that has the potential to come across as a benevolent cause, has the potentail to be used for massive economical gains. As we're seeing right now with face masks, some people are counting em benjamins right now for sure.  Probably a lot of masks manufactured in China. Sometimes I wonder if it would ring the same if the slogans we see today like "Wear A Facemask" would be changed to "Buy A Facemask@amazon.com or wish.com". Or perhaps Gucci, since it has become the hottest fashion accessory ever.

*Sorry for thread hijacking, but I think it's slightly related somehow. And this is the offtopic section after all.

couldnt agree more.

[Padmapani]

11 hours ago, technosomy said:

naturally occuring safrol or camphor etc is great, but the methlamine and others they will use not so good

safrol is carcinogenic. it's been banned from foods in many places of the world because of that.

methylamine is just one chemical you can use to turn safrole into mdma.

1 hour ago, astralprojection said:

i wouldnt want mdma to be a medicine; i think it doesnt have any use. the effect feels very "chemical" and "fake" and the comedown would probably spiral these people down even further.

edit: i think psilocybin would be a better bet for a true medicine. it doesnt feel fake at all, has a very natural "mother earth" type of feel to it - where you can really find progress. and no comedowns. no obvious alterations to normal brain function (neurotransmitters)

ofc i wouldnt want it to be freely avaliable, it can do damage on its own in terms of panic/anxiety (which id still say is rare) - but i think this could be researched further and if done in a very controlled setting could have much more use for these PTSD patients, then say MDMA that has a very distinct feel and its pretty much completely useless. you just feel like shit afterwards and you didnt learn anything.

both substances have shown great promise in the right context. so not just as a medicine given out, but in guided psychotherapy sessions. psychedelics seem to be useful for end-of-life anxiety and addiction and mdma is promising for ptsd because it lets people confront traumatic experiences without being overwhelmed with fear. if it feels fake or not doesn't matter if it does the job.

i do agree with albert hofmann that such substances should be best used "in the hands of the shaman" (a doctor in our society), but i also don't think that prosecution of users or even sellers makes any sense. we've seen how much harm prohibition of alcohol caused to people in america.

[technosomy]

37 minutes ago, Padmapani said:

safrol is carcinogenic. it's been banned from foods in many places of the world because of that.

methylamine is just one chemical you can use to turn safrole into mdma.

both substances have shown great promise in the right context. so not just as a medicine given out, but in guided psychotherapy sessions. psychedelics seem to be useful for end-of-life anxiety and addiction and mdma is promising for ptsd because it lets people confront traumatic experiences without being overwhelmed with fear. if it feels fake or not doesn't matter if it does the job.

i do agree with albert hofmann that such substances should be best used "in the hands of the shaman" (a doctor in our society), but i also don't think that prosecution of users or even sellers makes any sense. we've seen how much harm prohibition of alcohol caused to people in america.

safrol is only carcinogenic if you don't know how to make the oil, seen it done many times

[Padmapani]

6 minutes ago, technosomy said:

safrol is only carcinogenic if you don't know how to make the oil, seen it done many times

safrol is a single chemical compound. it doesn't matter how you make or extract it. it will always have the same properties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole#Toxicity

[astralprojection]

46 minutes ago, Padmapani said:

safrol is carcinogenic. it's been banned from foods in many places of the world because of that.

methylamine is just one chemical you can use to turn safrole into mdma.

both substances have shown great promise in the right context. so not just as a medicine given out, but in guided psychotherapy sessions. psychedelics seem to be useful for end-of-life anxiety and addiction and mdma is promising for ptsd because it lets people confront traumatic experiences without being overwhelmed with fear. if it feels fake or not doesn't matter if it does the job.

i do agree with albert hofmann that such substances should be best used "in the hands of the shaman" (a doctor in our society), but i also don't think that prosecution of users or even sellers makes any sense. we've seen how much harm prohibition of alcohol caused to people in america.

Sure. I can definitely see the effect of mdma being very positive and helpful, in the moment, but I worry when the comedown comes, which it always does, that they will only feel like they were fooled by a chemical, and it wasn't real. 

The risk of feeling worse than when you started feels very imminent. 

[Padmapani]

Just now, astralprojection said:

Sure. I can definitely see the effect of mdma being very positive and helpful, in the moment, but I worry when the comedown comes, which it always does, that they will only feel like they were fooled by a chemical, and it wasn't real. 

i see your worries, but apparently it does work in a psychotherapy session (at least the results from studies have been promising). maybe also because the people getting mdma treatment there take it for the first time and comedowns aren't as pronounced for these people?

[astralprojection]

If you have pure mdma, the comedown is not nearly as bad as if you take a pill with lots of shit in it, that's for sure. 

So I guess it could be a very truthful experience. I'm not just sure it will last. Even if you have the best experience in the world it is highly likely you would just consider it as a manufactured high, few days later. 

 

Whereas on mushrooms there's no such feeling, and the effects could be felt years and years later, simply cause of the mechanism. I still remember my mushroom trips but the mdma I'd more than be happy to forget, given the option to do that... They just blend together as a bad chemical romance. 

[psychedelic chipmunk]

Not going to promote drugs.

[technosomy]

1 hour ago, Padmapani said:

safrol is a single chemical compound. it doesn't matter how you make or extract it. it will always have the same properties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole#Toxicity

the amount you need for it to be toxic to humans is high, i wouldn't be paying to much attention to wiki, it being a controlled substance and all
it's all about how you extract it.
piperonal is easier anyway

[Padmapani]

10 hours ago, astralprojection said:

So I guess it could be a very truthful experience. I'm not just sure it will last. Even if you have the best experience in the world it is highly likely you would just consider it as a manufactured high, few days later. 

 

from what i've read the people in question are far from having the best experience in the world, but can confront and talk about the more horrible experiences without shutting off completely due to the mdma.

[Trolsk]

I'm very surprised about the negative comments here. Read this quote again:

Quote

A long-term follow-up study published in June 2020 demonstrated that 67% of the study volunteers (N=91) who had PTSD for an average duration of 17.8 years were still in remission and no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis at least 12-months following the completion of their treatment.

Those are amazing results! There is no known treatment for PTSD that is better than MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. Please notice that people are not asked to take MDMA at their home, but rather to take MDMA during a psychotherapy assisted session, and with follow up sessions. 67 % of people treated had no PTSD 12 months after the sessions. That's nothing less than amazing. This is not a temporary high, this has long lasting effects.

The whole point of the study is to replicate the above study but with a larger group to get more accurate results. MDMA can be classified as a medicine if there are strong positive clinical results. This is not a an attempt to influence politicians into legalize MDMA, it's an attempt to get scientific results (of the highest standard) to get the FDA to approve MDMA as a medicine.

I encourage you to read this interview with Rick Doblin and to listen to Tim Ferris interview with Doblin, before you jump to conclusions.

Here's a short documentary about a soldier being treated for PTSD with MDMA, and here's a longer documentary on the same subject.

[Trolsk]

20 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

Yeah good point. And besides I'm always very sceptical to all these "sign up for this, sign up for that petition, donate money whatever" Could be some pyramid scheme for all I know. These days anything that has the potential to come across as a benevolent cause, has the potentail to be used for massive economical gains. As we're seeing right now with face masks, some people are counting em benjamins right now for sure.  Probably a lot of masks manufactured in China. Sometimes I wonder if it would ring the same if the slogans we see today like "Wear A Facemask" would be changed to "Buy A Facemask @ amazon.com or wish.com". Or perhaps Gucci, since it has become the hottest fashion accessory ever.

*Sorry for thread hijacking, but I think it's slightly related somehow. And this is the offtopic section after all.

The URL for the fundraiser is capstone.maps.org, so no, this is not some scam, and MAPS is very well known: "Founded in 1986, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit research and educational organization that develops medical, legal, and cultural contexts for people to benefit from the careful uses of psychedelics and marijuana."

[Trolsk]

18 hours ago, astralprojection said:

If you have pure mdma, the comedown is not nearly as bad as if you take a pill with lots of shit in it, that's for sure. 

So I guess it could be a very truthful experience. I'm not just sure it will last. Even if you have the best experience in the world it is highly likely you would just consider it as a manufactured high, few days later.

The effects are long lasting:

Quote

A long-term follow-up study published in June 2020 demonstrated that 67% of the study volunteers (N=91) who had PTSD for an average duration of 17.8 years were still in remission and no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis at least 12-months following the completion of their treatment.

 

[Trolsk]

22 hours ago, psychedelic chipmunk said:

Not going to promote drugs.

Noone is, I am however promoting a scientific study of a substance (in accordance with FDA regulations) to find out if it has long lasting therapeutic effects on PTSD. At the moment the effects are very promising.

Quote

A long-term follow-up study published in June 2020 demonstrated that 67% of the study volunteers (N=91) who had PTSD for an average duration of 17.8 years were still in remission and no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis at least 12-months following the completion of their treatment.

 

[Trolsk]

At the moment, MDMA is classified as a schedule I drug by the DEA:

Quote

Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are:

heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote

If the phase 3 trials can verify the strong positive results of the previous two trials, then MDMA will be classified as a pharmaceutical drug, and can be used in psychology for the treatment of PTSD. MDMA will still be a scheduled drug. It will not be legalized, and it can only be used legally in a psychotherapy session.

This is about helping people with PTSD, it is not about making MDMA available to the general public.

[astralprojection]

@Trolsk

not negative, more like cautious. but you and padi opened my eyes a bit. and i now think maybe it could work (and the studies prove that it does, i suppose). 

 

[Trolsk]

1 minute ago, astralprojection said:

@Trolsk

not negative, more like cautious. but you and padi opened my eyes a bit. and i now think maybe it could work (and the studies prove that it does, i suppose). 

 

Listen to Tim Ferris' interview with Rick Doblin, the results and the work being done with MDMA and psilocybin is very promising.

[RTP]

On 8/12/2020 at 8:39 AM, Trolsk said:

The URL for the fundraiser is capstone.maps.org, so no, this is not some scam, and MAPS is very well known: "Founded in 1986, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit research and educational organization that develops medical, legal, and cultural contexts for people to benefit from the careful uses of psychedelics and marijuana."

Hey, that sounds good actually ... and you have my attention.
I even looked over now to see if I can donate a little BAT to them - unfortunately they aren't in the BRAVE rewards program ... that's too bad, honestly

[Trolsk]

This is nothing less than amazing, the fundraiser reached it's goal well before its September 10 deadline! More than 2,500 people contributed over $10,000,000 in gifts ranging from $1 to $1,000,000. This means that a total of $30 000 000 has been raised.

Here's the full press release.

[RTP]

That's cool. Cheers!