PsyTrance Bass Synthesis VST - Which do you like!?

[Prophecy99]

here is a quick vid of the MFreeformPhase + Correlometer combo in action.

[Prophecy99]

@MikroMakro thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter.  I definitely agree on a lot of your points!  At the begging, i really needed a way to check what I was hearing was actually good or not, and the visual meters/ visual tools really helped confirm and double check if what I was hearing was true or false.  It also is like a nice piece of mind.  And the marriage of Kick & Bass, no doubt they are coupled together and that can never be forgotten. I also agree with the  listening aspects, sometimes I even ask to myself "can you dance to this", "is there a groove", "are you put in a trance from this", "is this trippy" etc. etc.

With all that said what do you like to use for bass ? I don't think you shared what Bass synths you enjoy or use? =)

[Imba]

15 hours ago, Prophecy99 said:

just tried the MFreeformPhase + Correlometer combo, how did your correlometer look?  thank you Imba, for sharing Colin OOOD's tip.

heres a screen shot of best I could get on one quick test on an existing project, gonna try it on some other projects and experiment.

 

Phase should stay always above 0 because bellow it's antiphase. Finetune depth until everything is above, could be few places where it works and then you check it visual through oscilloscope. Sometimes i like to have it visual because ears can lie

 

This is last thing to do, make good bass preset and good kick, set velocity and volume sidechain on bass using LFO tool (explained in E-Clip tutorial), EQ it then check for phase issues. Sometimes you dont need to change anything, sometimes you do.

 

It's very simple if you know what you are looking for and what you want too achive. Maybe perfect kick/bass phasing isnt up to your taste or how you want it to sound but it's most correct way if you want your music to sound good and clean on big rigs. In my experience phasing can destroy whole track, it can eat too much of your mix on big soundsystems, it will become boomy or track will actually lose energy and could sound slower than it is.

 

Not just phasing, overlaping bass notes can destroy whole mix too. Overlaping kick and bass too. Thats why sidechain its important same as phasing. Balance must be good if you want to sound good!

[MikroMakro]

It will sound like a swerve but working out which synth is best for you will be an important part of honing your hearing. I am fairly sure every soft synth out there has been used at some point in the last 20 years.

I am fortunate to have a good monitoring situation, you may need to rely more on visual aids if you don't.

"It's very simple if you know what you are looking for and what you want too achive."

That is not my experience personally, every time feel pretty new to me, similar challenges each time with a progressive knowledge base track by track, actually a tick box of what to double check and make sure of each time, reducing mistakes is one of the the keys to progress. The first words understate the complexity of the latter words.

I guess everyone makes their own path.

 

 

[Padmapani]

i think the whole phase alignment thing only became agreed upon standard in the 10s. in the mid 00s there were tutorials teaching to cut the kick before the first bass note and also much of the 00s darkpsy has short kicks without any low end.

[Prophecy99]

17 hours ago, Imba said:

 

Phase should stay always above 0 because bellow it's antiphase. Finetune depth until everything is above, could be few places where it works and then you check it visual through oscilloscope. Sometimes i like to have it visual because ears can lie

 

This is last thing to do, make good bass preset and good kick, set velocity and volume sidechain on bass using LFO tool (explained in E-Clip tutorial), EQ it then check for phase issues. Sometimes you dont need to change anything, sometimes you do.

 

It's very simple if you know what you are looking for and what you want too achive. Maybe perfect kick/bass phasing isnt up to your taste or how you want it to sound but it's most correct way if you want your music to sound good and clean on big rigs. In my experience phasing can destroy whole track, it can eat too much of your mix on big soundsystems, it will become boomy or track will actually lose energy and could sound slower than it is.

 

Not just phasing, overlaping bass notes can destroy whole mix too. Overlaping kick and bass too. Thats why sidechain its important same as phasing. Balance must be good if you want to sound good!

roger that!  =) thanks for your thoughts! i need to use the mfreeformphase and tweak that static line to fix that example, or are you only supposed to mess with depth? it seems like the drawing of the phase line would work too? because in that example it flip floped at 75 no matter what depth and I am a big fan of the Xfer LFO Tool, i use it on every single bass. and yes I want my songs to be played on big rigs ! =)  shouldn't we all ?

I am thinking of using correlometer to check out a pro song at a kick and bass break down and see how it looks as well.

[MikroMakro]

@AstralSphynx  last night in bed I also was thinking about this. I was more thinking of how long was this common knowledge to well known artists before us lot lol, saw the YT vids...I am fairly sure the first oscilloscope vid I saw was the Sonic Elyisum one. I did wonder how long before this (or similar videos) this info was known about. Also I suspect that matched kick and bass samples that were already "locked in" for tempo/key were available to those who knew someone who knew someone so to speak.

I imagine some serious artists were doing this in good rooms/speakers before the oscilloscope use became apparent online.

I think you mean Sylenth1's oscillator phase reset/retrigger which is different from phase alignment of kick tail to bass note 1, (using delay or negative delay). That is a pre-requisite for any type of phase alignment in psy bass, without the osc retrig stability you cannot even begin..Without the phase retrig, you end up with an unstable bass which sounds nothing like psy trance bass as we know it today.

[MikroMakro]

Yes I see what you mean in terms of trying to date origins but people had access to VSTi samplers for a long while, once you had dialed in the tonality via a synth you could always trigger an individual bass note in the familiar pattern using a sampler.

NI Kontakt has been around since 2002, and DAW audio sequencing before that.

 

[Prophecy99]

don't forget the other work around b4 the osc phase retrigger as well,  is to bounce one good rendered quarter note of a bass note and copy it that way to manually "retrigger" the osc , so to speak.

[astralprojection]

well most of those psytrance producers who have the cleanest (most soul-less) sound - knew about this stuff in early 10s. But its now become popular media and everyone does it.

The technique itself, has lost its soul. I think its only a matter of time before we get back to our roots of analog - and dirt - and realise that sounds more pleasant - than being sonically raped by these ultra-clean tones and waveforms. 

Its great to try to be clean, and to phase-align your knb ofc; but in the process dont forget yorue not a robot or alien, youre a human. Vinyl sounds better than CD. 

[Prophecy99]

also note, Glitch has now more recently tried the phase align thing with voxengo pha-979, and he checked it with voxengo correlometer. (he didnt side chain but yea) i kinda wanted to ask him which he prefers now.

[MikroMakro]

I'll share some personal thoughts in relation to what has been discussed. I think there is a difference between clean sound and precise sound, they may however evolved together. Serum to me is clean and precise, it is the one synth I never used on bass line, I don't like the overly clinical texture and for whatever reason (maybe the envelopes) I just never got what I wanted from it. Many love it, and unsurprisingly their bass lines don't blow me away either, that is very much a taste thing though (and there are exceptions my last track had the cleanest bass I ever made so far, maybe even too clean ! (But you know these things happen in moments of production and you draw from them - my tracks are often technical exercises as well as music). As synth for leads for sure Serum has its place, it's a fantastic synth. Maybe I need to spend time adjusting the waveform as Astral Projection mentions. Precision for me is the timing element, for me this is FAR from soulless, in fact this "auditory faculty confusing" precision is a big part of the psycho acoustic element that messes with your ears/brain. The timing is so precise it creates ambiguity at the edges of human timing perception and allows multiple interesting rhythms to be presented to the ears (often depending on spectral focus). It creates an effect you cannot quite explain in words, for me it is no surprise this evolved in this music, it is quite fitting.

I have not seen this on an oscilloscope.

I am not sure clean sound is always soul-less, as melody and the track itself can counter that for me. I do however understand the generalization (clean, cold, clinical, too controlled, too tight etc.) I think that sound is to be celebrated as much as analogue Goa.

What we have is the best of both worlds, maybe as an artist you have the perfect situation to calibrate that sound for your own unique ends ?

In my humble opinion, no one has produced a thicker fatter more saturated sound than Electric Universe, check out Mystical experiences / Millenia.. now that is a sound ! 20+ years of artistic experience worth. His thick powerful kick and bass are quite unique as well, err.. when did you hear a snare smack you like that last (Millenia)? That will punch holes in your walls. I also love Mad Tribe Space Tribe (try Tuned in perfectly that is in my top 10 bass lines, deep thick chugging lumps of psy trance bass) for the punky trashy w-i-d-e sound, it's wild.. it is precise where it needs to be but the mixes have not controlled every tiny last detail that gives it a wilder sound than most. These artists are broadly singing from the same hymn sheet for me, EU just has a slightly thicker presentation in the leads slightly less wide, neither subscribe to the clean kick and bass (or any of the sounds)

Much is spoken about saturation, it is very difficult to do well from plug ins IMO. Like pretty much everything about psy trance... and that is why it remains one of the most demanding, challenging and interesting dance music forms ( and that is before you even consider the history and culture)

Psy trance is in a rather unique position, it champions technology and has pushed it to new areas and yet is a very visceral and physically attractive sound for humans. It resonates.. no one forgets psy trance even if it scared the living days out of you as a person who does not get it. It touches something, something some people don't want to be touched and for others it releases a feeling of exhilaration and excitement no other music can. For all its hard technical edge it draws people in and ignites interesting human responses and interactions.

CD or vinyl, personally give me CD/wav files any day.. it does not wear out (and then becomes grossly distorted and the extreme top end wears out and disappears pretty quick no longer representing the artists original intentions) You can master any music to have the dynamics of vinyl with ease. It's just that no one does.

I like how this topic broadened into many interesting areas.

[Imba]

4 hours ago, MikroMakro said:

Serum to me is clean and precise, it is the one synth I never used on bass line, I don't like the overly clinical texture and for whatever reason (maybe the envelopes) I just never got what I wanted from it. Many love it, and unsurprisingly their bass lines don't blow me away either, that is very much a taste thing though (and there are exceptions my last track had the cleanest bass I ever made so far, maybe even too clean ! 

Have you heard such basslines on big and good soundsystems on parties and festivals? Or is it just home listening?

 

 

4 hours ago, MikroMakro said:

Precision for me is the timing element, for me this is FAR from soulless, in fact this "auditory faculty confusing" precision is a big part of the psycho acoustic element that messes with your ears/brain.

In my opinion when you put so much effort in something it can't be soulless, nevermind if it's made for huge audience like Vini Vici or for normal psytrance events. You put so much time, effort and yourself into someting. You literally put soul into it.

 

4 hours ago, MikroMakro said:

What we have is the best of both worlds, maybe as an artist you have the perfect situation to calibrate that sound for your own unique ends ?

In my humble opinion, no one has produced a thicker fatter more saturated sound than Electric Universe, check out Mystical experiences / Millenia.. now that is a sound ! 20+ years of artistic experience worth. His thick powerful kick and bass are quite unique as well, err.. when did you hear a snare smack you like that last (Millenia)? That will punch holes in your walls. I also love Mad Tribe Space Tribe (try Tuned in perfectly that is in my top 10 bass lines, deep thick chugging lumps of psy trance bass) for the punky trashy w-i-d-e sound, it's wild.. it is precise where it needs to be but the mixes have not controlled every tiny last detail that gives it a wilder sound than most. These artists are broadly singing from the same hymn sheet for me, EU just has a slightly thicker presentation in the leads slightly less wide, neither subscribe to the clean kick and bass (or any of the sounds)

 

EU - Mad Tribe guys are killer, probably one of best Psy music today and stand out. So clean yet so dirty with loads of 90s sounds!

 

New Burn in Noise album is amazing, he have some retro melodies combined with 2020's sound. To me he is more Goaish than most of Goa today lol:

 

Imagine this with couple more melodies over the top. It would be super killer track for dancefloor and it is already.

 

Here is one more of goaish psytrance example, loads of 303:

 

 

You can have good, clean, precise and fat structure of track with dirty leads over. KBBBK pattern doesn't makes you fullon or psytrance, you can take best parts of every style you like and combine in your track. Triplets and gated shamanic voice doesn't make you progressive, it was done long before progressive. Here is your fullon bassline from 96:

 

 

There should be good balance. Imagine you listen to 90mins set of only melodies or only triplets, it's painful. Imagine 7 days festival with same Goa scheme over and over. Or any style. I wouldn't go listening to that even if you pay me lol

 

That's why I enjoyed Apsara, so much Goa for everyone's taste. Goa styles for every time of day, from smooth to euphoric, from agressive to dark over nights. Old and new, mixture of both... everything! You are listening to same genre but with so many variaties.

 

 

4 hours ago, MikroMakro said:

Psy trance is in a rather unique position, it champions technology and has pushed it to new areas and yet is a very visceral and physically attractive sound for humans. It resonates.. no one forgets psy trance even if it scared the living days out of you as a person who does not get it. It touches something, something some people don't want to be touched and for others it releases a feeling of exhilaration and excitement no other music can. For all its hard technical edge it draws people in and ignites interesting human responses and interactions.

 

There is what I call 'science' behind Psy/Goa trance production. There are things you make, and thinks you should make. Successful/big artist managed to learn that. There are some patterns that really works well, certain patterns of rhythm, or breaks, buildups, leads, fx, just name it. Certain patterns of how to do mixdown, what to push what to remove. Certain things must be done because certain drugs being used on festivals, certain things will put down crowd down if not done correctly. That's what is experience for. If you want your music to work always, you must balance between what you like and what works. Music is like marriage, if you want it to last and work, you must make some compromises, you must balance.

 

I remember when I worked on first album 5 years ago and decided to make 9 minute track with only 1 break at 5th minute. Tension bulding up for minutes and minutes. I played that and after 2-3 mins people were like wtf where is the break, where is the mood change? Same happend on another event, with another crowd, and event after and after so I said ok this is not working lets change it. I kept idea but added very short breaks on every 90-120 secs and changed some melodies so there can be bigger difference in mood in different parts of track and yeah it worked pretty well. It still works on dancefloor.

 

Later I was lucky to meet some top artists in scene and talk with them regarding production and it's tricks and they told me, 2 mins break, make a tension, build up and then put down, switch from full power to minimal power, or some smoother part then build up again but always keep evolving it. People need break. On festivals in summer dancefloor can have 40 degrees celsius, it's not always for jumping like crazy. People also like to stomp and gallop, people like to shake their asses smootly.

 

 

There are so muuuuuuch things to consider and learn if you want to be successful and play often for tons of people and it takes years, maybe 5 maybe 15. It's a bit easier today with all these tutorials, presets and sample than it was back in 2008 when I started. Way too easier! Yet it takes lots of time.

Or you simply just want to make it for yourself and don't care much, share it with friends, post it on Youtube and that is totally fine! 

 

I am always for to give best of yourself, your present knowledge and equipment. Push to the limits and don't think that just because you like it or it's up to your taste that can't be better - this way you can advance, whatever style you are making

 

 

[recursion loop]

I wonder what are the minimum monitoring requirements for making a really classy KbBB, ready for festivals and big speakers.

 

I think I'm out anyways, all I have in my possession is a tiny room (about 11 square meters) with some DIY acoustic treatment and 7inch monitors, I don't even have a sub because with my room dimensions this doesn't seem to be practical. Just wonder what rooms do big producers have (minimum size) and how much do they invest into treatment and monintors/sub.

 

The question also applies to techno, D&B and any other genre that needs a precise sub frequencies control

[astralprojection]

its good to read everyones thoughts on this, as difference of opinion is important - and very much a good thing. 

about vinyl vs cd; i meant it only as a reference to that we do love a little dirt on the signal path. I too prefer digital audio files; vinyl is just way too expensive; and cumbersome, and as you say Mikro; it degrades over time and thats just how it is.. But there is no denying that a record without scratch and dirt, on a properly set-up turntable with a decent amplfiication stage - sounds better than a CD can. I dont mean to sound like a purist or audiophile cause i really am not; but I also dont deny that the music sounds more alive on vinyl and more pleasant to the ears. 

 

I dont agree what is said about serum; that it is not good for Basslines; on the contrary i think its the perfect synth for basslines since the envelopes can be Exact; sloppy; snappy; slow, whatever you like - and the waveform can; too. So i dont see the logic behind that one, but agree to disagree. (For example you can set decay time of the envelope to be exactly 1/16 without first calculating it into ms, and you can draw your own custom envelope shapes. So in that regard it is really on top. And the ability to dirty-fy your waveforms via either FFT (select exactly what harmonics you want) or via whatever modulation you like - makes it extremely versatile too; specially creating "analog-like" sounds)

 

also strongly disagree on Electric Universe I think his stuff has become borderline unlistenable over the years ^^ 

 

[MikroMakro]

I will just reply to Imba for now... in point order

1) Yes heard and dance to a lot of psy trance on big systems, the dancing is a big thing for me, at festivals and it is my daily exercise (ok not every day but regularly) typically Funktion 1 at festivals (5-8 a year although not this year of course). I have seen one artist "live" who seems to use Serum. I won't deny I am fortunate enough to have an exceptional personal listening situation, you could term it "audiophile".

2) Yes I agree with that for sure, I guess it does not resonate with everyone, actually that is pretty much impossible, not every track is your best and even it for yourself it may not at all be for listeners. I recall telling a mid level artist that tune X was probably one of the best psy trance tracks I have ever heard. He replies saying... oh I never even think about that one much. This must be the case for many many track, I find sometimes with 1 track of a compilation is superb. Resonance with a listener is an interesting thing.

3)  EU and ST/MT have been doing this since Goa times, and yes they take that spirit with them now (both melody and sound design with remnants of classic Goa de-tuned saw leads in some of the leads) along with all the modern touches.

4) I like Burn in Noise a lot, my fave track is Loco, I will listen to his new material - I have been out of the loop for a few months with new releases.

5) Luckily I enjoy dancing, this helps a lot, I know what you mean about expectations, fine line between experimenting and a familiar formulation. This is for everyone to work out themselves. I don't know... drugs.. I can get a tingle all over listening and dancing in my garden sober... I think drug use which seems fairly moderated from what I see, rare to see open over the top use at festivals, people seem to be careful.. it probably just just extends the musics capabilities. Even drinking alcohol is a totally different thing with psy trance the context changes it radically.

Speaking to people who are more experienced than you is a good thing... short breaks of some kinds seem fine..however I find breaks kill the meditative trance mood. Sometimes they are very very disturbing in fact especially if they drag on.... again this is our job to work out. PS I like your track Golden Times, great name as well.

The last point is very difficult, it is very difficult to be objective about your own music and unless it is played out difficult to know... the risk I guess is people like the familiar so you just make the familiar ? Not sure, that is not where I am at really... I have had some positive feedback on unsolicited play outs and took a chance myself to get my music played on a sound system on Anjuna beach which was nice.

Agreed, always do the best you can at that time.

[MikroMakro]

A bit more response.. Recursive I would say there is no set standard.. it could range from £500.00 studio monitors to £15,000.00 + of studio monitors, I heard Tristan say in a video he also has an actual PA system to test his tracks on... the room can be of various sizes and as far as I see online rather different levels of acoustic treatment from professional to  a more humble treatment. I don't think there is any specific standard it will vary greatly. I guess it also depends if you use a sample or a synth, or if your label or mix engineer wants to change your bass line.. I think it can happen. (of late some bigger producers have been hiring a mix engineers - often a respected psy producer themselves)

Astral...I am sure great bass lines can be made using Serum just not by me. It is the synth I have put the least effort into for bass lines. I never got the weight I wanted from it... maybe I am just using it wrong. You tend to stick with what you know.. I have plenty of options that seem to be faster and better to my ears.  (as in I hear what I personally want to hear more easily). Each to their own and let's be thankful for that.

Nothing wrong with loving the sound of vinyl.

 

 

 

 

[Imba]

2 hours ago, MikroMakro said:

A bit more response.. Recursive I would say there is no set standard.. it could range from £500.00 studio monitors to £15,000.00 + of studio monitors, I heard Tristan say in a video he also has an actual PA system to test his tracks on... 

 

From what I heard/know, our serbian musical pride - Talpa has worked so many years on  table in living room on KRK 6 which he sold. And after he complained that he will buy another KRK because he is used and perfected on them. Only last year he managed to finish and move to studio, I think those are KRK 8 now:

 

 

 

3 hours ago, MikroMakro said:

the room can be of various sizes and as far as I see online rather different levels of acoustic treatment from professional to  a more humble treatment.

 

Last year I also 'made' my studio. All panels were DIY and thankfuly to Colin OOOD who gave me various tutorials on that, I was able to save loads of money, to make them look good and have good use! Lets say it costed me 60-70% less from finished product prices - I saved enough to buy monitors, lights and rest fancy stuff. Room is 4x3m, superchunk basstraps in all corners plus flat traps on first reflection points (above head too) and rest filled with pyramidal foam to collect more mids and higs. Luckily in this room i have wood paneling ceilings filled with glasswool which extra isolation. Hairy and heavy carpet which is also big plus. All in all, huge game changer for around 500-600 euro. 1/3 of room is completely isolated. It's very acoustic and in same way I can make music non stop full power without disturbing anyone in other rooms or outside house! Some photos before decoration and with:

 

 

 

3 hours ago, MikroMakro said:

PS I like your track Golden Times, great name as well.

 

Now compare that sound/mixdown to Imba - Liberation which was made/mixed in this studio after. Or with any new releases in future

[MikroMakro]

Following on from the "you need to use an oscilloscope" if you want your music to sound good on a big system. There is an element of truth in this, it is a very useful visual aid...as I mentioned it will help avoid anomalies that can cause sub cancellation and get you in the ball park. (avoid strange psychoacoustic effects that sound "odd" to the ear)

One thing to know about some of the best PA systems. They are wide bandwidth, they have lots of headroom, they have low distortion and very good driver integration, superb transient response and if you are really lucky they are outdoors  : ) Infinite bass traps to the sky ! (so you hear the sound system and not PA system  and skewed response of a room, arguably perfect sound)

Anything you play though them will sound better than a sound system that is fundamentally poorly designed (or in a terrible acoustic space, dropping 120dB of sub bass into a big room), under powered, poor frequency response, limited bandwidth, relatively high distortion (old/worn drivers and amps)  lower tech, lower quality drivers, crossovers and build quality (poor cabs/ bad bracing/resonant cabs).... or just worn out since 20 years of playing out.

The high headroom and low distortion is important because when you listen to many big artists there is variation in their output.... tonally. Some are more subby, some brighter, some have a little thick sound some a little thinner, some more saturated, some cleaner. There are many ways to sound good. Some of this is taste driven.. but to judge it correctly you need accuracy in the monitoring from the start.

So my opinion is you can sound good on a big PA even if your kick and bass line is not so rocking. I have have danced to music from a fairly unknown artist and been very happy and enjoyed the sound (very much melody driven but not Goa) and kbbb.... only to find when I got home and listened, I found them meh (actually not very good at all IMO and compared objectively to a big artist well versed in great kbbb).... so not so great kick and bass after all. (The complete opposite of the premise of "Do you listen at the party on great sound systems?" )

So how did this phenomena happen ?

You see at the party you are happy, having a great time, the music is loud and your adrenaline and endorphins are flowing. So maybe your overall impression is actually better than a cold hard objective listen on headphones or speakers at home.

Remember other than phase alignment of the kick tail and bass note 1 (and potential cancellation of sub) an oscilloscope tells you very little about the spectral content of a kick and bass... sub content, mids and transients. (HPF or low shelf cut choices, harmonic EQ choices minimum or linear phase EQ choices - well ok if non linear phase then this will show up as a phase shift on the scope) but it does not suggest much about how much sub/bass/mids and tops do you have in your kbbb. All of these aspects are also very important to sounding good on those big PA systems. Some tracks have PLENTY of sub and some much less and both can sound good and drive a track along.

What may well influence this more is ... am I aiming my mix to be as loud as the big releases when mastered. (Disclosure...I am professional mastering engineer) So sub amount given a PA system we shall call "The Reference PA" - A hypothetical flat PA system from 30Hz-20kHz outdoor with infinite bass traps to the clouds can be different depending on taste/ perceived volume  choices / mistakes in monitoring. It is not just "use an oscilloscope and you will be guaranteed to sound good on a big system".

There will come a time when more than 50pct of the people on the dance floor will think... woah... too subby or, bass seems light .... too much top end or... upper mids are making my ears hurt I am off to sit this out for a while etc. etc. This is to be avoided and ideally at the mixing stage. (even though the suggestion is about broad tonality of a release.)

Also a note about how much sub, how much bass in the kick and bass... well I can tell you at least one  sound system for psy trance I have heard was tuned more like D&B sound system with COLOSSAL sub bass... I mean over kill subs. So to coin the term "on a big  sound system" there is not always a standard, as in if you want to sound good on a big sound system... there is no standard sound system for a start. There are multiple parameters that need to be precisely hitting "The middle path" to satisfy more than 50pct of the listeners. (not just a scope alignment)

This can avoid the subby track sounding like thunder is striking the party on a system tuned with too much sub and a bass light track sounding like "Thin fest" on a system where the extra sub reinforcement was left in the PA hire warehouse.

And as mentioned some artists have a thicker deep sub than others, this also relates to your bass line root note. I am all for this mixing style variation, it is a form of artistic difference that can maybe make different artists stand out a little more over an above their musicality differences. (maybe not the most deep of artistic differences, compared with synthesis, instrumentation choices, style, melody or more effects based psy, sub genre choice, melodic or sound effects based psy etc.).. but a choice nonetheless, notwithstanding mistakes caused from sub optimal listening conditions.

Food for thought.

[astralprojection]

great insightful stuff there mikro! Thanks for typing all that up, really valuable information.

[MikroMakro]

Thanks and the great thing with psy trance in all its guises is it is a very rich music, technically and culturally and there is a lot to learn and enjoy, it is nice and a privilege to be involved with something that can be limitless.

 

[Prophecy99]

mood, context, effect so so much !  and context covers so many things, time of day, location, substances, dj style before, dj style after, festivals main genre vs sub genres, listening at home, listening while dancing, listening while working, all in context.  there are days I love everything I hear, then there are days I don't feel the same instant enjoyment to many songs.   breaks from listening are good, even pauses and exploring with completely different styles of music.

great points here, i like the discussions sub topics here as well.  i need to evaluate Golden Times and Liberation as well ! i own both so it will be easy to listen and analyze.  either way I can't wait to get some more acoustical treatments! =) 

oh and yea breakdowns are a necessary evil to the trance state ! they are needed for that one moment (15-35 seconds) of rest and no beat, but there is a very fine line, as a dancer if a break down is too long which is very easy to be too long, it tends to be extra cheesy and you are just waiting for the beat to dance again. but no breakdowns you are desperately waiting for it to take a breath.

and @Imba I love your point about having soul into productions.  i can relate to that!  and I like your point about compromise, with what an artist truly loves and what formulas are proven to be effective, all in balance and in moderation! you cant have too much of one or the other.

[MikroMakro]

Freedom is a great thing and choosing what your break should be like is your choice/intention as an artist : ) Personally speaking, breaks interrupt the trance state,... especially ones that make no musically timed sense, lol. When I dance the energy seemingly given almost feels like perpetual biological energy is being released (like more energy than you actual have available, actually giving you energy) And I mean by endogenous means. I think most people can moderate there own pace of dancing through a track and I know I can slow the flamboyant shapes I am throwing down when need be, ha ha. just standing and nodding to the beat with my eyes closed, taking in air or looking around at the collective experience and enjoying that.

Of late I have been leaning towards subdued sections that maintain pulse... I enjoy being lost in a moment and the pulse is the focus that brings that state into being.

Literally do what you think works though, there are many ways to do everything, this music is awesome, nothing else quite produces the effect of this music. I long for the days to be back at the parties, like we all do, till then there is the garden and a gaze to the horizon.

[Padmapani]

20 hours ago, MikroMakro said:

I think most people can moderate there own pace of dancing through a track

usually yes, but when i first heard dimension 5 play a liveset i had to lie down for 15 mins in the middle of the set to catch my breath

[recursion loop]

21 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

If it works as advertised, and is useful for psy/goa, it sounds like one less headache and -249 usd on the bank account lo

TBH, I don't think you need a dedicated 250 bucks plugin to put your psy kicks and basses into good order. If you synthesze your kicks and basses you can acheive good match between them by tweaking the kick tail pitch envelope and the bass starting phase and then you likely won't need any phase aligning tool at all. If you use a kick sample you can just find out the key/bpm where it work best with your bass and then all you may need is a sample delay utility, which your DAW may have (if not, download Forward Audio Sample Delay thingy, it's free), to align them a bit better.

There is also that method Imba posted earlier here, it also uses only free plugins but I haven't tried it yet.