Children Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 In case of some of you are interested : Neurotoxin : For Red Buzz tracker (www.buzzmachines.com) Psychopat : Spiral Landing PIII computer + MC505 De-Fect : Bouncing Shrooms And Giggleing Gnomes Buzz tracker (www.buzzmachines.com) Andromeda : Amiga Custom (self-made) soft-synth + m68k system Synsun : TNC 2001 Hardware Asura : System Babel (Code Eternity Rmx) I don't know ... Hardware I guess :-) Artha : Control Buzz tracker (www.buzzmachines.com) Epsilon : Cosmic Vortex (Creepy Mix) Reason Promon : Throbbing Hobbits Clavia Nord MicroModular, Soundblaster Live, Cubase VST 5 The Bastard : Crispy Crunchy Buffet Beast Mackie 24*4 board, akai sampler, access virus, cubase 5 (PC) De-Fect : Germs, Germs, Psychedelic Germs Buzz tracker (www.buzzmachines.com) Amygdala : Synaptic Misfire Waldorf MWXT, Roland JV-2080, Sampler, Audio Synsun : Replycant Hardware Vax : Protoplasma Hardware Agalactia : Awkward Lightrate Nordlead2,PC Audio programs Torakka : Greasy Fingers I don't know Solstice : Ricochet PC Running Logic, Attack +ES1, Korg MS2000r, Yamaha CS6X, KorgNS5R+vocals CONCLUSION : As there was 2.5 times more Tracks made with Fruity Loops than Buzz, it seems Buzz is better than Fruity Loops to make good stuff, as there's no Fruity Loops winner Track here. Anyway, as you can see there is no Impulse Tracker used in the winner Tracks -> for the always negative people : please stop saying this music was all made with old trackers ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest triplex Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 just to let you know that the production of a good track depends mainly on the artist and not the gear. BUZZ will not make a better track than FRUITY. programs do not make tracks. artists do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Children Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Well for me the quality of the music depends on the artist, but the sound quality depends on the gear for sure ... that's why I said it seems Buzz provides better sound quality ... I never used both these programs, that's just a supposition I made by seing why there was 40 Fruity Loops Tracks and 15 Buzz ones in the contest, and 3 Buzz Tracks are winners whereas 0 Fruity Loops ones won ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Buzz and Fruity is programs made for people having fun making music in their homes......NOT to produce high quality music for a record release...... Afterall people are buying the music so they have a right to expect and get at least a good production quality... In my mind Buzz and Fruity are not delivereing a good sound quality...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest psychopat Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 oups, mine was made with Fruity so there is at least one Fruity Track (;-)) ) in the compilation. But I agree with triplex, the producer is more involved in the track quality than the gear used. Even for the sound quality because if you don't know how to use correctly this very high quality (and expensive) product it could sound bad (noise, lack of dynamics, etc...) - conclusion - Gear Production Track SOUND quality ------------------------------------------------- good good good good bad bad bad good could be good bad bad must be bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jer Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Elysium: This contest was obviously aimed toward people who are just beginning to make music. (or so one can assume since these artists are not signed yet). and I guarentee there are a lot of "professional" releases that use soft synths. To think that you can't acheive on-par sound quality without purchasing lots of gear and a Mac to control them is wrong. What a capatalist way to think.... Buzz is free, by the way....and it's programmers make modules and effects because they enjoy it.... to me, that's what good music is all about. Money and lack of equpiment should never be an obstacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Yes sure jer I am not talking about softsynths in general....But of people making music solely in Buzz or fruity.....If i was to buy a compilation with music made alone in Buzz or fruity I would feel that someone was trying to rip me off.... as I said...it's cool for people using it for home productions but not for the intention to let people pay for such a sound quality...... This is not to say that the track contestant's music are bad...it's not....but most of the tracks that I listened to do indeed need a lot of improvement on the production side.... Maybe you feel that it does not matter what get's released but I strongly feel that too many "bedroom" releases are no good. Again this is only about production quality NOT talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest psychopat Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Hi Kristian ! "If i was to buy a compilation with music made alone in Buzz or fruity I would feel that someone was trying to rip me off" And how would you be able to know which software has been used? Isn't it true, too, that good gears can produce bad sounds? "but most of the tracks that I listened to do indeed need a lot of improvement on the production side" You are right, especially mine ;-). I would say that they lack "good mastering". But mastering has nothing to do with Buzz or FruityLoops. You can use external soft/hard gears to performe that final touch. So possible problem you see in those softwares are : - bad sound generation? - bad multitrack mixing? - no way to equalize each track? (you can but 16 tracks max = 16 fx busses) What do you don't like in Buzz/Fruity sound generation? On the other hand, I would be interrested in hearing from you some nice advices concerning production/mastering. I'm aware of some basic stuff but I'm sure I can learn a lot and I want :-) Mail me directly if you don't mind. thanx in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 It's hard to tell you how to make your production better.... it's a matter of taste....It will be a bit too much to get into detailed descriptions about production methods... But one thing that I really feel strongly about is that you really need a good quality mixer and a good set of monitors to be able to produce a good sound..... You should always aim for a clean sound.... If you can hear each sound clearly you have comed a long way..... It's up to you to deside how you want to mix the track...there's no rules... Also be aware to put too many parts on top of eachother....It mostly get too messy.... I know some believe that music solely done inside the computer is the best and yes it can be good but I still think the best sound is obtained with some quality gear.. When I think that Buzz and Fruity is a "low" quality product it has something to do with the sounds and their lack of quality components.... If it really is so damn good I am sure that they would be programs you had to pay for and not freeware.. There is a reason why major sequenzer programs, softsynths, virtuel samplers and professional plugins do cost a lot of money. It's quality..... And yes good gear can produce bad quality in the hands of people that do not know what they are dealing with :-) But as I said Buzz and Fruity is good for people that want to learn about simple music production..... NOT for people that want to release serious stuff... I think a lot of you people would be surprised to know that almost none of the bands that you like use Buzz and fruity..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jer Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I would go so far as to say that buzz can produce sounds equivilant to hardware. I think they reason they sound bad is because they are, in fact, mastered in someone's bedroom with normal speakers and no proper way to actually HEAR what sounds they're making. Most people, when they decide to get serious about making music, usually don't spend their first investments in a mixer and speakers...they go right out and buy a synth and that can leads to bad production. ... buzz is free because a Company doesn't make it...period. I'm not trying to make buzz out as something it's not. It's got it's flaws, sure...and I've heard better softsynths....but it really is a good program....you should check it out Elysium.. oh wait, you can't.. x86 only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 x86 ??????? Actually I have checked it out jer......I still do not agree........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jer Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 ok ok..that's cool and by x86, I mean 386, 486, ect, ect....pc processor architecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Well I have a 2 x 800 Power Mac G4 (my baby)!!!! :-) and a IBM Netvista M41 DT P-IV 2 GHz W2K (I am going to seel it soon)...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kilian Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 well... about the whole buzz vs hardware thing: buzz doesn´t have the dynamics required to make a clear and crisp sounding track. considering it´s freeware it´s a good program but it doesn´t take spiderman to spot a buzz production.. compared to a good hardware synth like novation supernova.. well.. like bush would have said it: buzz will not provail.. no disrespect to the artists in the contest using buzz.. the talent is there... my advice: if you want to advance.. get at least a hardware synth and start using a sequenser like cubase or logic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johan [Hokuz Pokuz] Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 whoooow, why's everybody buzz'ing?? i used reason with a roland ep synth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Que Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 My 2 cents... I think those saying that softsynths like buzz/reason/fruity can produce sound equivalent to hardware are right and wrong at the same time.. If you're a "casual" listener, you probably won't hear any difference between a soft saw and a hard saw, and you will most likely say that a cheap built-in reverb sounds just as good as on any hardware FX board. But people who are into sound production, or just "advanced" listeners ("advanced" is the right word - the more you listen to the music, the better your ear gets), can easily hear the difference. It's not just about subtleties, it really DOES matter. For instance, most soft sounds will sound bad in the mix. As Kristian said, the production is good when you can distinctly hear every sound, just as if they were played separately - clear and crisp. If the spectrum of a sound is "not right", it will sound blurred. If many sounds have the same predominant spectral component, it will get distorted. I'd say that 95% (rough of soft-produced sounds have really poor spectrum. It applies to both synth engines and FX plugins...... As to the fact that there are quality releases made with computer only, I partly agree with that.. Cosma is a good example, I'd say he's reached the limit of software production quality. But take, for instance, the "find out" track. Doesn't it sound much like Ticon or Son Kite? Similar bassline, percussion loops, distorted voice sample.. but the overall sound quality and "fatness" is far from that of any Ticon's track! The percussion loops get blurred as they overlap, the sound is "flat" and unimpressive after several listens.. or is it just me? ) Cutting off my jumbled thoughts here.. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spiralix Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 I must say you'r right! i own alot of high qulity gear.. everything but nice monitors.. Those i get tomorrow. Anyway, im getting into buzz a little bit at the mooment, i manage to get a cool sounding loop with nice echoes and so on.. but as already said it's far from the quality that i can get recording my supernova at 44khz.. well thats quite obvios.. but the thing is its just not reachable by buzz.. maybe you can produce cool sounds but it lacks in quality! thats a fact! Feels point less to say this, it's probably allready in this topic three times! but i wanna play too! hehe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest naaman Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 i guess the real sound quality of a copmuter will come from the sound card, not the software itself... i mean , even when you play mp3 files on your computer they will sound better coming from a , like, idontknow, EMU card or a Pulsar card, and not a SOund Blaster Live and all thos , Multimedia products... ther is a digital thing thos PC cards doin to the sound they outputing, and thers a limit to the frequency bandwidth they can output at the same time and i also think the SBlive has some compressing on the sound, it reduces the volume of some peaks if thers lower volums with it, at the same time, and it's ok for PC cards that are build for games and stuff, but for MAKING music it sucks. maybe listen , after it connects to a real amplifier maybe, but if your building your own music, or studio and your using jsut a PC card, so like, STop doing that when useing a better card, best is with 4 or more outputs, that is outputing into a real mixer, like each output goes into a channel you CAN get a real real real good qulity for any thing, if it's mixing audio recorded from hardware into the HD, like most Elctronic and trance music made, mixed with Logic or Cubase, or Protools,.. and it will effect mostly on the sound Generated from software, like buzz reason, anything, even a simple Simsynth can be sound GREAT when mixed right with Volume,EQ and like, more volume mostly. and i think useing buzz with an extrnl mixer and a good card is so good, very creative, you can get to sounds and loops with so many parametrs to change that it can be actually better then Hardware, where ou limited to the buttons you got and the cabels you can connect to them, the REAL way to do music with all the equipment you can get is to mix'em toghter HArd+Soft+Anything mixed right on a good mixer and thats it, inside that ther could be a any music, any sound sequencing, that's in the hands of the creator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kilian Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 naaman: still.. if you have the money to buy gear like a mixer and a good soundcard, why bother using buzz when there are other programs that sound much better? not to mention other hardware.. software synthesis isn´t equal to hardware yet.. ( it´s just a matter of time).. though i use lots of software... especially for loops/samplestuff where software is more convenient than hardware... the fact remains that after some serious processing buzz still sounds quite flat... and the "sequenser" in buzz is very sketchy to work with.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Epsilon Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 If I would have money I would buy hardware insted of software. I think people who use buzz and other freeware softsynths don't just have enough money to buy loads of hardware. Mixer, monitors and a synth(s) aren't cheap at all and that's the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spiralix Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 I have one thing to say about the whole sound card thing! On a sound card there is almost never a very goos analogue/digtial convvertor!.. and thats another resaon why you should use maybe A-dat or something.. the A/D in those are much much better then in a sound card! and that effects the soundquality alot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest de-fect Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 mummel.. . if someone whana give me some cash i´ll stop useing Software and buy me some nice hardware. dodi dum dum. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest naaman Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 why use the buzz software? in one word, Pleasure :0 it's so fun man, i just wish it had a gated compressor or eq, or well any way to gate a from b and i like the interface, very easy to use with all the buttons controlled via seq and stuff, maybe it's not greaat for drums and n9ot the best for basslines but for all the sweepi scrtchi lots of fx doin nothing stuff it's buzz. reason is for all the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spiralix Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Thats the spirit! For fun! thats what its alla about anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest de-fect Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 yeah... fun fun fun fun fun.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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