Guest Ubik Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 Just gave a listen to the fire comp (turbo trance), which I found very disappointing. 9 songs with almost identical basslines, three notes "melodies" with the same synth sound invented by gms, and a couple of breaks thrown in to interrupt the monotony, but no song developpment/structure whatsoever and very poor drums/percussions. And I had the same thoughts while listening to the psyside, nomad, talamasca (latest) albums, the psionic tonic comp and well most of what's been released on TTR, 3dvision and acidance recently. It's more or less well done, but it's all quite boring and light years from previously released stuff. All of this is imho of course (thinking to mr jaimz post , and you can listen to what you want, but please explain what is so good about it ? On the other hand I find most "minimal" a lot more varied and interesting (the remedy, digital features, 9 pills, footprints comps to name a few) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flying Kundalini Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 I agree with you here Ubik, the scene is pretty stagnant at the moment what with trance by numbers being boring &repetitive ( why is Musica Divinorum touted as one of the best CD's of 2001 - it's soooo monotonous )..cash ins on the horizon (RR stash bag, GMS hits ). in fact the only decent CD I've heard recently is Orebo Factory( SIC) on stoneage... and thats only good because of Logic Bomb and Miraculix.. maybe it's just one of the troughs the scene suffers from time to time.. I'm waiting for the new Logic Bomb album to restore my faith a little... BomS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest russ Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 that gms/3d/talamasca/turbotrance is so tired. it's time for it to die for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Setsuko Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 fully agree with Ubik . the 'new' Talamasca and psionic tonic compilation is so lame .... although I like the psyside album , it's very strange and i like it ... ( it's like a mix between parasense and alienated imo). indeed the progressive released nowadays is much more interesting , 'the remedy' and 'solar seeds' ... and the new Etnica (which is awesome - hard hypnotising grooves with subtle acid-lines - so massive ) ☻ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vasyachkin Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 the only new Full-On track that i liked was Chi-Ad -- Liquid Neon Sky on the other hand i liked a lot of new minimal tracks ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flying Kundalini Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 bring back Psychedelica Melodica :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest --==MileS==-- Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 Everything released after the Assasi-nations compil in this particular style was bound to disappoint imo...The problem I have with the latest Talamasca, Nomad, Psyside, Neuromotor is that it may be hard and fast but lacks any subtlelity. Throwing in many sounds doesn't make it psychedelic nor exciting imo. It is just no joy to listen to it but a mere struggle to spin the cd al the way through the end... On the other hand, imo the whole minimal movement has kinda the same problem since a lot of stuff released nowadays simply isn't innovative nor interesting to listen to as known techno formulas are being recycled over and over again. For 3 years since the movement started not THAT much has changed and I must say I prefer the early stuff such as Atmos' Headcleaner, Human Blue's Ice and X-Dream's Radio when the movement was still fresh over the tried and tired stuff released nowadays. For me the novelty of minimal has definately worn off and I don't expect anything must-have or out-of-the-ordinary anymore from this camp. Its just as a conservative bunch as the avid old skool goa heads... Too much linear and unoriginal crap released in a short timeline will probably test the tolerance level of even the most devoted minimal lovers...the same effect what makes the NU-Psy of 3DVision so lacklustre...I guess looking at the reviews of Etnica's Chrome we are about to reach a turning point... The only interesting movement in psy worth a listen nowadays imo is Psyambient where indeed people try to combine new sounds with something that is also melodic and pleasant to listen to and besides is faithful to the psychedelic roots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest auryn Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 I guess what we're all ranting against is a lack of musicality and innovation. Be it in minimal or full on, recycling old formulas from other artists is just not the way to go. I think artists should think about creating their own style before releasing stuff, not just copying someone else's. also, I hope more artists will use different styles of music (like jazz or funk or house) for inspiration instead of older releases of the same style... that's like inbreeding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jonathan Swayze Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 Yeah, I had to let those punks have it in the Etnica reviews,a nd I fully agree with you Miles, that the ambient sound is much more interesting because it's much more explorative. Your comment too about the minimal releases needing more quality to stand out from the rest (also in that etnica review) is right on. One of my net buddies and I had a conversation about this just recently, and we really do seem to be stagnating. I've realised this slowly over the past months, as I found myself exploring more and more of the ambient/downtempo/chill kind of stuff (PLaid, Ishq, Petr Milkovec {<- who got his start tracking and putting stuff on TIS!!}, Boards of Canada, Ooze, Dub Trees etc). The melodic scene is stagnant, and the more minimal side is starting too slow down as well, with mediocre Interzone comps and EP's from the likes of Necton that lack that punch, that hook that grabs you and takes you along for the ride. For my melodic I go back, to early Shiva Chandra, Etnica and those amazing sounds of Mantis over at www.innerverse.com/ub. For my minimal I go for Son Kite, the elmshorn sound and not a whole lot else, except for the 2-3 tracks on the odd compilation that manage to pull me in (Stuntman - Bionoid theme for example)... It's a little scary, because this scene has meant so much to me in my development, but there is always hope. When I hit up a party and start dancing to a DJ who does his track selection right, with tracks whose sounds really trigger an awesome movement in my limbs - I remember why I love this scene. Without wanting to sound smug, I consider myself a good dancer, and I can have fun dancing to anything: D + B, the beatles, hip hop (<- I have fun with the good and original stuff for sure!!), house and funk. But it's the cream of this scene that gets me moving in new and totally interesting ways - as the music itself is much more manic, much more expressive and as such, can cause me to move in a much more fulfilling way. There really is a unique character to the psychedelic music that does it right. We have artists that are still pushing the envelope, and we have others that are merely going through the motions. Let's admit that. That somewhat-disheartening-without-totally-removing-my-hope realisation is compounded by the immaturity on this site. Explicitly revealed in the Etnic - Chrome review, and the Planet BEN - Silver reviews for instance. What are we coming to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vasyachkin Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 keep bitching, you're wasting your own time. bad, boring repetitive music is ESSENTIAL to progresss. if it was not made you would not know what is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jonathan Swayze Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 Hmmm.. I would accept that philosophically... we need evil to know what good is etc etc etc.... that's not a new idea. I think what we're saying is the percentage of stuff that lacks oomph is much higher than it should be in healthy scene. You're ALWAYS gonna have @!#$ producers, but I think we have more than our fair share.. The question then becomes, if you're willing to develop this thought further: what degree is a healthy degree of boring music? What percentage is the necessary amount? Hard to qualify I know... but I think that it would not be too far off the mark to say we got a higher degree than is normal.... What do you think vasyachkin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bugbread Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 I understand the concept of "evil necessary to understand good", but for music, I don't think I buy it. I suppose if I have to accept it as true, I'd rather be in a position where we're saying "There has to be bad music (minimal hard house) for us to appreciate good music (psy)". What I think the real issue here is is that we've gone from an underground scene where everything was judged on its quality to a big scene where everything is judged on its history. It's like people who were into prog in the early and mid 70's: people started listening to unknown bands with names like The Pink Floyd (back when they had "the") and Yes, which were making really new, unique sounds. 10 years later people are saying that prog is dead because Yes is making "Owner of a Lonely Heart" and Pink Floyd is making whatever crap they were making. No one realized that the indie bands they started out liking were now dinosaurs, and the quality was still in the underground. My friend makes psy, and he's really good. Minimal but excellent. I played a bunch of tracks for my girlfriend, Absolum and this guy, and asked her to guess the pro. She guessed wrong. The point is, underground artists are now making the best stuff and as long as we keep thinking of AP, X-Dream, Etnica, and GMS as the leaders of the scene, we're going to find that new stuff sucks. In a word, we're getting old. -mike And I have a hard time thinking there's nothing good out after listening to Pelinpala. OMG it's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest russ Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 yes! nice comments! i agree completely with miles, with jonathan, and with bugbread. full-on GMS is tired has-beens, most progressive is overly static and doesn't progress, and the underground will always be where the heart is. in my mind the innovators out there are now: Son Kite, double dragon, new morphem, Midimiliz, Antix, Amphasis, Lurifax, and Fabel/Phony Orphants (basically Digital Structures, Plastic Park, and Iboga) and a number of people i have never heard of. if it weren't for this crew, my interest might drop out completely. what happened to the U.K. artists? have they become completely silent? i think artists need to stop thinking about what people want, what people will listen to, what people will buy, what will sound good in a club, and just make music THEY want to hear right now. @!#$ all to everything else (there's hardly much money in the scene anyway, with the exception of japan). that's the only way forward, and that's the only way we will hear music that is genuinely exciting. dreaming of koxbox of yesteryear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vasyachkin Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 what do i think Jonathan? i think that there are two completely separate issues. 1 - not enough good music made 2 - too much bad music made and the point is that while 1 is a problem 2 is not a problem at all, but might actually be good, notice i am not talking about percentages here but absolute magnitude and the innovators IMHO are : the delta psysex atmos son kite shpongle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Järsimähäiriö Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 Everyone longing for some quality full-on sound should check "Alienated - FF". Easily one of the best albums for a long time and tracks like "Fluff Factory" and "Cheetah Test" are cold-blooded multi-layer in-your-face psy-killers. Totally awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bugbread Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 Vasyachkin: We agree! A bunch of bad stuff is fine by me if there is a lot of good stuff being made too (and as long as review sites exist so that purchasing is not gambling). But a decrease in good stuff itself: ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jonathan Swayze Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Yeah man (vasyachkin), well I think maybe we're both saying the same thing buddy! You're saying the glass is half empty, and I'm saying it's half full. Still, I wonder if proposition 1 and 2 in your follow up are interrelated.... Nonetheless, whichever perspective you choose to accept, I think the end result is that we end up looking elsewhere for music that gives us those tingles..> And just like life is dependant on cycles: of decay and then of replenishment, night and day, downpour and drought, cold and hot etc etc - maybe we're just hitting the low point of a trough - who knows what killer sounds await us around the corner! At least I hope so anyways.. one positive thing to think may be that if everything is kinda stagnant now, then there's nowhere to go but up!! Maybe (and this is somewhat akin to your point vasyachkin) it's a good thing, cause it means the upward cycle is just around the corner - unless we haven't hit the bottom yet! (scary thought eh?) Anyway guys, have good night! Gotta go back and answer more phones! YAy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MK Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Russ I agree with you about that list of innovators - "Son Kite/Fabel, double dragon, new morphem, Midimiliz/Spirralianz, Antix/Pylon, Amphasis, Lurifax, and Phony Orphants (basically Digital Structures, Plastic Park, and Iboga)" - it's quite a big list and there are many more you could add to that list - - - check out some some releases from Databass Music, Creamcrop, Flow, Medium, D-Drum, Hadshot, ZMA, Boshke Beats - some Paste, XV Kilist, Yumade, Plastik Elephants, Alienated... Go see someone DJ very well and it will restore your faith. I just came back from a gig - saw Kostas play for many many hours, and he played amazing toons. There is a lot of great music, you just need to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phaedrus Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Like the recent Absolum, Nomad, Talamasca (although this is not very full-on, more melodic) albums. Also check the Subscience, Dimitri's DAT Bag, and Genetic Process comps. All very psychedelic, very innovaitve, and full of energy. To me the minimal is the repetitive stuff that fails to break new ground. But it would be a pretty boring world if we all had the same tastes. Cheers, Phaedrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest russ Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 hey MK, actually you're right, it's quite a big list! contrary to my earlier post (that day i felt a little down about the music for some reason), i think the music coming out these days is actually very good! there's tons of garbage, but that shouldn't really matter, and it is only to be expected from the studio-in-a-computer revoluttion. and there are a hell of a lot of good labels out there. the music from all parts of the world is probably better now than it has ever been. denmark, sweden, and germany are putting out better stuff than ever before. for me, the one development to be saddened by is the silence of the UK artists. the germans/swedes are anal by nature and the music reflects that, so i think all we need is a bit of british psychedelic madness to round things out nicely. the brits have always excelled at making off-your-head "drug music", or psychedelic music. (a lot of the best drug music these days is more introspective and subtle.) Flying Rhino seems to have run out of steam (half their releases are re-releases, best of's, back to the vaults, singles collections, in the mixes. etc.) , and Twisted moves slowers than your typical glacier in the south pole. The rest have flown for the havens of club music. Here's hoping 2002 sees the revival of UK psytrance music... With Tristan and Process and Posford and Gus Till putting out new stuff (hopefully soon), and with people like Doof and Bumbling Loons and Dragon lurking around, there is a lot of potential. i think one of the biggest problems is that the people who make some of the best drug music take loads and loads of drugs, and this kinda stops them from being functional people! party people who are always stoned out of their minds tend not to like deadlines. some come on dudes, put the stash away just for 6 months, crank out some top tunes, and then bring the bongs and the liquid back out again to celebrate the return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest russ Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 hey MK, one more question. can you tell me a bit more about the magus dj set? what was his mixing like, cross-fades or beat-mixing? was he technically competent? and could you tell me the kind of tracks/style he played. i organize parties in Japan, and i have some great afternoon dj's i like, but i am still looking for a bit of nighttime acid madness. is magus my man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MK Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Well Kostas is half of Magus. We have had many DJs in Melbourne this summer but I'd have to pick him as the best for the summer season so far. I have seen him play a few times over the last 2 or 3 months and each time it has been different. Yesterday he played a small party in a club; It was on Sunday afternoon - early evening - he played at about 4pm for maybe 2.5 hours: very funky trax - i have to say i didnt know most of them, but he did play some Filur, Paste, Charasmatix and a lot of other stuff that was not familiar to me at all - he created a really great energy. He then played again at about 9pm-12am - this time it was harder, but still funky and very uplifting: Adrenochrome, Nuclear Ramjet, Bitmonx and more and more... He also played the best set at the New Years party, French Island - around 1am - 3:30am - night-time madness but still funky and controlled...Tegma, Triplex, Yumade - His mixing was spot on - beatmixing and cross-f - obviously i am impressed by Kostas! If u r serious about hiring him for Japan, i will put him in touch with you ------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Syre Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 If you closely follow the minimal scene, with releases and unreleased material, it's far from as dead as you guys describe the full on side of things.. Just my point of view, as I am really happy with what comes out right now that is in my style (solar seeds for example, and lots of unreleased).. It's never been better. I could go on mention new artists and projects, but it's pointless. I feel happy about where my music is going. I hope you find that too with yours again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nomad Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Magus is a mad cunt isn't he MK ..best set so far for the summer, IMO is a tie b/w shiva chandra and Maru ... I aswell have been somewhat bored with the music lately apart from the few acts i've seen aforementioned. Lack of splash though has had an impact on my buying power so new cd's have been a rarity in my world for the past 4 weeks .. this wrong has just been righted and I 've ordered a few new cd's on the opinions of some of you guys . Bio tonic..electrik colors Etnica..chrome Matenda..energy loader(?) otherwise solarseeds the remedy winter session psionic tonic electric high .... / hopefully this'll do the trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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